Advise ATC if a pilot is sick

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pelmet
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Advise ATC if a pilot is sick

Post by pelmet »

Never really thought about the scenario in detail before but of course, it seems like the logical thing to do...…

"C-FASF, an Embraer 545 operated by AirSprint Inc. as flight ASP827, was on approach to
Toronto/LBPIA (CYYZ), ON when a flight crew member was ill and unable to continue their duties.
The aircraft landed uneventfully. The company sent a reminder to flight crews to advise ATC in
such a scenario."
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Last edited by pelmet on Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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C-GGGQ
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Re: Advise ATC is a pilot is sick

Post by C-GGGQ »

I can see it if the aircraft isn't certified for single pilot I suppose. Or if it's an actual medical emergency. However, "Kenora radio just a heads up my FO is more useless than usual due to a migraine" seems...odd lol
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digits_
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Re: Advise ATC is a pilot is sick

Post by digits_ »

If the captain is in the lav and the fo has to operate the plane by himself with nose steering only on the left side, that could be a non emergency situation where you would want ATC to know about the situation.

No idea if that is applicable to this CADORS or even this airplane type.
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Re: Advise ATC is a pilot is sick

Post by C-GGGQ »

Yes like I said. Two crew jets I understand
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Scuderia
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Re: Advise ATC is a pilot is sick

Post by Scuderia »

C-GGGQ wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:55 pm
I can see it if the aircraft isn't certified for single pilot I suppose. Or if it's an actual medical emergency. However, "Kenora radio just a heads up my FO is more useless than usual due to a migraine" seems...odd lol
If it is certified for single pilot, crews might be used to a two-crew SOP. Different scenario whether it's the skipper or FO, but either way something to be said about being single pilot unexpectedly.
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Eric Janson
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Re: Advise ATC is a pilot is sick

Post by Eric Janson »

pelmet wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:39 pm
Never really thought about the scenario in detail before but of course, it seems like the logical thing to do...…

"C-FASF, an Embraer 545 operated by AirSprint Inc. as flight ASP827, was on approach to
Toronto/LBPIA (CYYZ), ON when a flight crew member was ill and unable to continue their duties.
The aircraft landed uneventfully. The company sent a reminder to flight crews to advise ATC in
such a scenario."
Our SOP is to do that as well (multi-crew jet).

This was a SIM exercise back when I was doing SIM instructing. I kept asking the remaining Pilot for information as "ATC" and he kept giving it. So I kept asking him stuff - the idea being to get him to tell ATC to (politely) "Shut Up". He never asked and made life extremely difficult for himself. These are great learning experiences for all involved.

At some airports they will put you on a discrete frequency in this situation.

Remember the first priority is to FLY THE AIRCRAFT - everything else is secondary. Don't be afraid to declare a PAN PAN or MAYDAY if you feel it is warranted.
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Re: Advise ATC is a pilot is sick

Post by AirSprintInc »

Eric Janson wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:51 am
pelmet wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:39 pm
Never really thought about the scenario in detail before but of course, it seems like the logical thing to do...…

"C-FASF, an Embraer 545 operated by AirSprint Inc. as flight ASP827, was on approach to
Toronto/LBPIA (CYYZ), ON when a flight crew member was ill and unable to continue their duties.
The aircraft landed uneventfully. The company sent a reminder to flight crews to advise ATC in
such a scenario."
Our SOP is to do that as well (multi-crew jet).

This was a SIM exercise back when I was doing SIM instructing. I kept asking the remaining Pilot for information as "ATC" and he kept giving it. So I kept asking him stuff - the idea being to get him to tell ATC to (politely) "Shut Up". He never asked and made life extremely difficult for himself. These are great learning experiences for all involved.

At some airports they will put you on a discrete frequency in this situation.

Remember the first priority is to FLY THE AIRCRAFT - everything else is secondary. Don't be afraid to declare a PAN PAN or MAYDAY if you feel it is warranted.
The CADOR file doesn't contain all the information relevant to this event, but yes, we agree that declaring a "Pan Pan" or a "Mayday" is never a bad idea in these situations. We have shared this event with our crew members and issued guidance towards advising ATC of any situation of a pilot condition which might take them away from their normal duties.

Cheers,

Adam
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Re: Advise ATC if a pilot is sick

Post by co-joe »

I had this happen to me, and I just covered for the guy, flew single pilot and didn't tell anybody. Maybe not the smartest thing to do but it's what I would want someone to do for me. He was just violently sick and needed both hands for the barf bag though, if he'd gorked out on me, or had a heart attack I'd totally have declared an emergency, no question.
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digits_
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Re: Advise ATC if a pilot is sick

Post by digits_ »

co-joe wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:35 pm
I had this happen to me, and I just covered for the guy, flew single pilot and didn't tell anybody. Maybe not the smartest thing to do but it's what I would want someone to do for me.
Why? Why would you need to cover for a sick crewmember? It's not his fault he was sick, was it?
If I ever got sick while flying, I'd want to other crew member to do what is necessary and communicate openly about the problems. Why hide it?
Throwing up could be a sign of much more than just a innocent stomach bug...
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Re: Advise ATC if a pilot is sick

Post by co-joe »

Judgement call. It was a stressful day, and I believe what I saw was a panic attack, but I left it up to him to deal with. If it was a CVA, or an MI, or a loss of consciousness, I'd have had not choice but to report it. He's gone on to have a very successful career so I can only assume he's figured out a way to deal with whatever it was. We flew together a lot and I never saw and other symptoms to give me worry. I made a call, right or wrong...
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pelmet
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Re: Advise ATC is a pilot is sick

Post by pelmet »

AirSprintInc wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:29 am
Eric Janson wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:51 am
pelmet wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:39 pm
Never really thought about the scenario in detail before but of course, it seems like the logical thing to do...…

"C-FASF, an Embraer 545 operated by AirSprint Inc. as flight ASP827, was on approach to
Toronto/LBPIA (CYYZ), ON when a flight crew member was ill and unable to continue their duties.
The aircraft landed uneventfully. The company sent a reminder to flight crews to advise ATC in
such a scenario."
Our SOP is to do that as well (multi-crew jet).

This was a SIM exercise back when I was doing SIM instructing. I kept asking the remaining Pilot for information as "ATC" and he kept giving it. So I kept asking him stuff - the idea being to get him to tell ATC to (politely) "Shut Up". He never asked and made life extremely difficult for himself. These are great learning experiences for all involved.

At some airports they will put you on a discrete frequency in this situation.

Remember the first priority is to FLY THE AIRCRAFT - everything else is secondary. Don't be afraid to declare a PAN PAN or MAYDAY if you feel it is warranted.
The CADOR file doesn't contain all the information relevant to this event, but yes, we agree that declaring a "Pan Pan" or a "Mayday" is never a bad idea in these situations. We have shared this event with our crew members and issued guidance towards advising ATC of any situation of a pilot condition which might take them away from their normal duties.

Cheers,

Adam
Thanks,

For learning purposes, any more info you could provide would be great.

Here is another recent event....

"C-GKFG, a Convair 340 aircraft operated by Kelowna Flightcraft, was conducting flight KFA576
from Kelowna (CYLW), BC to Vancouver Intl (CYVR), BC with 2 crew members on board. When 70
nm northeast of CYVR the captain became ill and could not continue with their duties. The first
officer notified ATC of the situation and requested priority handling. ARFF was on standby for
landing, which was uneventful. The flight was met by ARFF and BC Ambulance Service."
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Re: Advise ATC if a pilot is sick

Post by PilotDAR »

I had this happen to me, and I just covered for the guy, flew single pilot and didn't tell anybody.
Me too.. I was young and naive. Timmins to Thunder Bay on night. He was just doubled over with food poisoning. I asked him if he wanted to go back. He asked me if I was okay to continue to T Bay, and I said I was okay. I figured better care there for him anyway if he needed it. I didn't want alarm the pax in the back. Once in T Bay, knowing he was conscious, and not complaining, I saw the pax off, and went back for him. He walked off, I secured the plane, and a night at the Valhalla was all he needed.

I probably should have told ATC I was doing it mostly solo, 35 years later, I know better....
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Re: Advise ATC if a pilot is sick

Post by Beefitarian »

Define sick I guess. :vom:

I can't see any issue with a heads up,"Someplace tower, I'm flying solo as my partner is a little under the weather. Anticipate no difficulties..."

If I ran a company and anyone on board was really ill, I would suggest a Pan Pan and as long as I wasn't running the finances into the ground, I'd pay for the ambulance. Get the poor bugger checked and re-hydrated at least.

The panic attack guy is a pretty grey area. Seems like the wrong place for him but I guess it all worked out so far.
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pelmet
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Re: Advise ATC if a pilot is sick

Post by pelmet »

"C-GIQG, a Swearingen SA 226-TC operated by Perimeter Aviation PAG02, was conducting a
medevac flight from Cross Lake (CYCR), MB to Thompson (CYTH), MB. During the descent into
CYTH, the paramedic attending the patient required assistance. The first officer left the cockpit to
assist and the Captain made a PAN PAN indicating single pilot operations. Prior to landing, the first
officer returned to the cockpit and resumed normal duties. The aircraft subsequently landed safely
at CYTH."

Another case shown above......

Advising ATC is some situations could be a good idea. They may adjust traffic flow in such a manner that you are not landing closely behind another aircraft which would decrease the likelihood of a go-around.
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Re: Advise ATC if a pilot is sick

Post by Braun »

pelmet wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:14 pm
"C-GIQG, a Swearingen SA 226-TC operated by Perimeter Aviation PAG02, was conducting a
medevac flight from Cross Lake (CYCR), MB to Thompson (CYTH), MB. During the descent into
CYTH, the paramedic attending the patient required assistance. The first officer left the cockpit to
assist and the Captain made a PAN PAN indicating single pilot operations. Prior to landing, the first
officer returned to the cockpit and resumed normal duties. The aircraft subsequently landed safely
at CYTH."

Another case shown above......

Advising ATC is some situations could be a good idea. They may adjust traffic flow in such a manner that you are not landing closely behind another aircraft which would decrease the likelihood of a go-around.
Definitely. We will for sure adapt if we know that a crew member is not available.
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