Fatal Crash - Gabriola Island - Dec 10, 2019

Topics related to accidents, incidents & over due aircraft should be placed in this forum.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore

Post Reply
L39Guy
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:04 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Fatal Crash - Gabriola Island - Dec 10, 2019

Post by L39Guy »

iflyforpie wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:47 am Departures are different. Quite possibly since you are entering them from a static environment vs a dynamic one and the actual risk is less since most aircraft pass well above 35 above the departure end of the runways vs below DH or at MDA at the MAP.

They used to have missed approaches in the RCAP well in excess of 425ft per nautical mile (I want to say 460 or 500 ft in some cases) before the Advisory Circular or whatever came out restricting them to under 425. But lots of departures have 500ft/nm requirements which is pretty insane when you thing about it—especially if you’re dealing with an engine failure.
You're quite correct, departures are different. In addition to meeting the IFR departure climb gradient requirements, an air operator has to meet the aircraft performance requirements. In many cases, the IFR departure is more onerous than the aircraft performance as the captured area is larger and the obstacle requirements are less stringent. Aircraft performance gradients deal with things like second segment, etc. whereas IFR gradients are the average climb gradient to clear the obstacle with a very healthy obstacle clearance safety factor.

Until a few years ago, any non-standard missed approach gradients (>200 ft/nm) need at TC exemption; this changed to allow up to 425 ft/nm without exemption. Anything above that would need an exemption, which, as you point out, is a pretty healthy climb gradient particularly if one loses a fan.
---------- ADS -----------
 
L39Guy
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:04 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Fatal Crash - Gabriola Island - Dec 10, 2019

Post by L39Guy »

Aside from the technical requirements of what goes in the CAP and RCAP, the underlying philosophy is found in the design standards (criteria) used to develop instrument flight procedures. Canada uses TP 308 which is essentially FAA TERPS and the rest of the world with the exception of a couple of countries use ICAO PAN-OPS.

The protected areas, minimum obstacle clearance, descent gradients, climb gradients, etc. are the product of statistics, operational research, nav accuracy, instrument accuracy, pilot ability, etc.

The standard design criteria assumes the lowest common denominator - average or less pilot, no automation, basic instrumentation, basic aircraft performance - think a Sunday afternoon IFR pilot flying a C172.

Recognizing that this lowest common denominator system leaves lots of unused capability such as more aggressive climb gradients, etc. the design criteria can be exercised to "squeeze" better results; a climb gradient > 200 ft/nm is a classic example since many aircraft can produce something greater than that value even with an engine failure. Also, most aircraft can have their landing weight managed such that the WAT climb gradient will meet or exceed the prescribed one - a C172 does not have a lot of latitude, for example.

For all these reasons and more, restricted procedures are developed but are limited to those 604 and 70x operators that have the OPS SPEC which helps assure that they can meet the requirements of the restricted procedure.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4413
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: Fatal Crash - Gabriola Island - Dec 10, 2019

Post by rookiepilot »

Peter Garrison wrote an excellent post on this accident. He is very good at uncovering the potentially important issues, and avoids the irrelevant discussions all too common.

He takes issue with the TSB’s report as incomplete.

I don’t read checklists once in the entire article.

https://www.flyingmag.com/story/pilot-p ... indicator/
---------- ADS -----------
 
CpnCrunch
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4016
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:38 am

Re: Fatal Crash - Gabriola Island - Dec 10, 2019

Post by CpnCrunch »

rookiepilot wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:08 pm Peter Garrison wrote an excellent post on this accident. He is very good at uncovering the potentially important issues, and avoids the irrelevant discussions all too common.

He takes issue with the TSB’s report as incomplete.

I don’t read checklists once in the entire article.

https://www.flyingmag.com/story/pilot-p ... indicator/
The title of that article is "A stroke of bad luck leads to instrument failure in IMC". But sometimes you make your own luck. The facts are that he took off with a known problem in the HSI, a known problem with the autopilot, with a novice passenger in the left seat, and did a restricted ILS approach in low IMC.

As for TSB missing info: yes, definitely. I see no mention at all of the autopilot problems in the final report (unless I've missed it).
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Accidents, Incidents & Overdue Aircraft”