Another Crash in BC

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CpnCrunch
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Re: Another Crash in BC

Post by CpnCrunch »

It would probably be useful to be IFR if you're flying up to 17000ft inside a massive cloud layer, and perhaps use a plane other than a 172. Not sure what NOAA is really thinking here in getting recreational pilots to do this work. They fly into hurricanes, so they know all about this stuff.
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Another Crash in BC

Post by jakeandelwood »

iflyforpie wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:16 pm Probably not for hire or reward. Like CASARA, Hope Air, etc.
Even Hope Air requires a minimum private licence. What this guy was doing seems like an odd charity to donate your time to if that's the case.
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co-joe
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Re: Another Crash in BC

Post by co-joe »

boeingboy wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:15 pm https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/f ... li=AAggFp5

The plane didn't have an emergency locator transmitter that could have been detected by the upgraded satellite search system, a situation the safety board says is common in more than half of all Canadian-registered aircraft.
That's a bit scary. What's the point of having an ELT then?
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ahramin
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Re: Another Crash in BC

Post by ahramin »

co-joe wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:20 am
boeingboy wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:15 pm https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/f ... li=AAggFp5

The plane didn't have an emergency locator transmitter that could have been detected by the upgraded satellite search system, a situation the safety board says is common in more than half of all Canadian-registered aircraft.
That's a bit scary. What's the point of having an ELT then?
Three points:

1. The ELT can be heard on 121.5 so anyone flying overhead tuned to that frequency will hear it and report it.

2. When SAR looks for the missing aircraft or reported ELT signal they can home in on its position.

3. It's legally required.
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455tt
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Re: Another Crash in BC

Post by 455tt »

ahramin wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:58 am
co-joe wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:20 am
boeingboy wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:15 pm https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/f ... li=AAggFp5

The plane didn't have an emergency locator transmitter that could have been detected by the upgraded satellite search system, a situation the safety board says is common in more than half of all Canadian-registered aircraft.
That's a bit scary. What's the point of having an ELT then?
Three points:

1. The ELT can be heard on 121.5 so anyone flying overhead tuned to that frequency will hear it and report it.

2. When SAR looks for the missing aircraft or reported ELT signal they can home in on its position.

3. It's legally required.

There appears to be a little confusion over ELT's here.

The older ELT's can only transmit over 121.5 MHz, the new ELT's use 406 MHz. Since 2009, COSPAS-SARSAT satellites can only detect 406 MHz signals. Without a 406 MHz capable ELT, SAR will have a much harder time finding you, since they must be within short range to hear the signal. TC is currently transitioning to new rules that will mandate the use of 406 MHz capable ELT's.

In this particular accident, the aircraft was fitted with a 121.5 MHz ELT and not a 406 MHz capable ELT. As stated by the TSB report, "until the regulations come into effect mandating the carriage of 406MHz–capable ELTs, the risks to transportation safety remain".
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7ECA
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Re: Another Crash in BC

Post by 7ECA »

It's all well and good to point out that a 406MHz ELT is "better" than an older 121.5 only ELT; but what is the actually reliability of any ELT in real world accidents? Seems more often than not, the ELT fails to activate; or much more annoyingly ELTs that activate at random...
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iflyforpie
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Re: Another Crash in BC

Post by iflyforpie »

ELTs are “fail-deadly”. I will never understand bureaucracy that (tried to) force the change to 406 when it had the same failure-prone G-switch and the same ability for the ELT to be completely destroyed in the crash.

GPS trackers are “fail-safe”. They leave a trail of breadcrumbs that ends when the unit is destroyed or electrical power is removed—and it’s likely going to be close to the crash site.

There was a plane that crashed in Kootenay National Park a while back and the GPS tracker led rescuers right to the crash site. Unfortunately, the pilot had perished, but they were able to rescue his dog.
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Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
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Beefitarian
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Re: Another Crash in BC

Post by Beefitarian »

iflyforpie wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:31 am GPS trackers are “fail-safe”. They leave a trail of breadcrumbs that ends when the unit is destroyed or electrical power is removed—and it’s likely going to be close to the crash site.
That's fine for super wealthy elite 1% guys. What about us po' folk?
Those units are like a hunnerd an fitty bucks plus a subscription. :(
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Another Crash in BC

Post by jakeandelwood »

Beefitarian wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:18 am
iflyforpie wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:31 am GPS trackers are “fail-safe”. They leave a trail of breadcrumbs that ends when the unit is destroyed or electrical power is removed—and it’s likely going to be close to the crash site.
That's fine for super wealthy elite 1% guys. What about us po' folk?
Those units are like a hunnerd an fitty bucks plus a subscription. :(
Exactly, you can't expect a pilot who owns his own airplane to afford that. Lol
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Kejidog
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Re: Another Crash in BC

Post by Kejidog »

jakeandelwood wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:52 am
Beefitarian wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:18 am
iflyforpie wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:31 am GPS trackers are “fail-safe”. They leave a trail of breadcrumbs that ends when the unit is destroyed or electrical power is removed—and it’s likely going to be close to the crash site.
That's fine for super wealthy elite 1% guys. What about us po' folk?
Those units are like a hunnerd an fitty bucks plus a subscription. :(
Exactly, you can't expect a pilot who owns his own airplane to afford that. Lol

Lol. Made my day to read this. As i tell my kids all the time. I have no money. I own a plane
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AirFrame
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Re: Another Crash in BC

Post by AirFrame »

Beefitarian wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:18 amThat's fine for super wealthy elite 1% guys. What about us po' folk?
Those units are like a hunnerd an fitty bucks plus a subscription. :(
Have you priced out what it'll cost to have a 406MHz ELT installed at a shop? For the same money, you can afford to pay $150/year for 20 years or more.
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Re: Another Crash in BC

Post by Beefitarian »

No, but I admit, I'm having a pretty good year. I actually have money in my wallet. like enough for a large pizza extra cheese. I think I flew over 3 hours too.
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SAR_YQQ
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Re: Another Crash in BC

Post by SAR_YQQ »

Apologies for the slightly necro post - I missed these follow on comments that were posted in July.

Had this gentleman’s ELT not gone off, we would still be looking for him today. If he had a 406, we would have found him the day before, as we would have launched immediately instead of waiting for someone to report him overdue. I love the idea of using a SPOT or breadcrumb tracker, excellent tool and really tightens up the LKP.
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L39Guy
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Re: Another Crash in BC

Post by L39Guy »

The issue for any ELT, 121.5 MHz or 406 MHz, is that it's value occurs if it works - if the "g" switch activates and the antenna is visible to the sky or not underwater. In either of those two scenarios they are useless, including the much vaunted 406 ELT.

Personal trackers, if used properly, work all the way to impact and perhaps afterwards but but the most important thing is that they provide a last know position as you note.

Dollar for dollar, the personal tracker is the way to go; and for those that thing it's too expensive, share it among a few aircraft owners to reduce the individual cost.

And a tip: if you're within cellphone coverage at the departure airport, get that OK message out as soon as you are airborne and make sure it comes in on your cellphone. That way you know it is working ok; similarly, upon landing send the OK message make sure it comes in on your cellphone too.
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