Declared Emergency by Phone

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pelmet
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Declared Emergency by Phone

Post by pelmet »

Interesting scenario. I has a twin Cessna loss of electrical power upon gear retraction as well a few years back and had to manually extend the gear....

C-GILK, a Beech B300 operated by Carson Air, was conducting a flight from Vancouver Int'l
(CYVR), BC to Campbell River (CYBL), BC with 2 passengers and 2 flight crew on board. On take
off, when the crew retracted the landing gear, both generator annunciator lights illuminated. The
flight crew actioned the memory checklist items for a dual generator failure. The crew began to
declare an emergency with ATC when the radios stopped working and the screens for the G1000
flight instrument system failed. All electrical annunciators, communications and instruments failed
except for the emergency back-up standby attitude indicator and altimeter. The crew were able to
remain in VMC and elected to proceed to Vancouver/Boundary Bay (CZBB), BC airport because
the aircraft was already proceeding in that direction. The first officer called the CZBB ATC tower by
cell phone and declared an emergency. The captain actioned the checklist to manually extend the
landing gear and the aircraft landed in CZBB without further incident.
The operator's maintenance found the aircraft's main battery (Concorde p/n RG-380E/44K, s/n
40819077) was hot and testing at 20 volts. The main battery was removed and replaced with cap
tested battery (serial number 40885147).
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co-joe
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Re: Declared Emergency by Phone

Post by co-joe »

They had to fly on the peanut gyro because of a low battery voltage? That doesn't sound right to me.
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daedalusx
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Re: Declared Emergency by Phone

Post by daedalusx »

Not only that but imagine in a day of solid IMC and moderate icing ...
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iflyforpie
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Re: Declared Emergency by Phone

Post by iflyforpie »

co-joe wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:17 am
They had to fly on the peanut gyro because of a low battery voltage? That doesn't sound right to me.
Sounds perfectly right to me. Avonics are always the first to fail in a low volt condition.

The GCUs kicked both generators offline because of excessive charging current most likely.

If the battery was drawing too much current.. then it was the problem in the first place.

Battery voltage meter doesn’t tell you when you check it before start. It’s no load... or not very much load. Starting doesn’t tell you either... all you need is amps, not volts which drop down to almost nothing anyways on a start.

Had the same thing happen to me in the 337. Both alternator CBs popped. Pushed them in, both popped again. Good thing I had dual vacuum gyro instruments. Oh and VMC, too. Wound up being the battery.. the same one that would start the engines just fine.
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FlyGy
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Re: Declared Emergency by Phone

Post by FlyGy »

I thought those glass cockpits had a battery backup for things like this.
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pelmet
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Re: Declared Emergency by Phone

Post by pelmet »

One would think there would be battery power for 30 minutes or so. Sometimes there are other issues that don’t get fully explained in the basic report.
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co-joe
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Re: Declared Emergency by Phone

Post by co-joe »

I was told of a scary scenario with a Beech 200 and a new G1000 installation. There's a prop RPM red arc and it's something weird like 1750-1800 RPM, if you accidentally set the props there it sets up a harmonic that causes the screens all to shut down. Not sure the 300 has such a limitation, are they the same electrical system as the 350 and 1900, or are they a 200 type system?
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TailwheelPilot
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Re: Declared Emergency by Phone

Post by TailwheelPilot »

The G1000 Caravan has a generator, alternator, and aircraft battery (same as the legacy). Another single turbine just has a generator and aircraft battery (certified IFR). I would not be surprised if there was no redundancy beyond two generators and the aircraft battery on a King Air.
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iflyforpie
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Re: Declared Emergency by Phone

Post by iflyforpie »

pelmet wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:56 pm
One would think there would be battery power for 30 minutes or so. Sometimes there are other issues that don’t get fully explained in the basic report.
I thought it was explained in the report. The battery was hot and making only 20v. If it was only charged after a start for a few minutes before the generators kicked off line and it’s like that, your problem is the battery. That battery isn’t going to last 30 min powering aircraft electrical systems even in a load shed.

As for backups all you have is a small standby instrument with its own battery for your gyro and barometric instruments as well as basic navigation if you still have avionics power.

One thing that that’s interesting is that the generators don’t need the battery to run. If you could isolate the battery, the generators could continue powering most of the systems.. but I don’t believe you can easily do that in this aircraft.

On the 337 it was one of the first light aircraft with alternators and they were concerned about a total power loss associated with the battery which a generator could easily deal with because it is self-exciting but an alternator cannot. They put a switch in there labelled Run and Standby. You put it into Standby and a big red light would light up and through some electrical wizardry the alternators would self-excite. After no more than a few seconds you switched it back to Run and then you could use the alternators with the battery off.
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bobcaygeon
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Re: Declared Emergency by Phone

Post by bobcaygeon »

Nope, no back up requirement, just like the steam airplane. The peanut gyro needs to last 30 minutes in ideal conditions. Ie not Canada many months.

The G1000 issue with the B200 happens with 3 blades props only in a very small 50 rpm prop range that is easily avoided. Freak harmonics that mess up the AHRS only. It also takes several minutes at that rpm to happen and goes away quickly as soon as you change the rpm.

I know the guys involved when this first happened as no one including was aware it could happen. 1st upgrade with the 3 bladers
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plausiblyannonymous
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Re: Declared Emergency by Phone

Post by plausiblyannonymous »

co-joe wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:17 am
They had to fly on the peanut gyro because of a low battery voltage? That doesn't sound right to me.
No, they flew VMC.
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pelmet
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Re: Declared Emergency by Phone

Post by pelmet »

C-GDJR, a privately operated Piper Navajo PA-31-310 aircraft took off from Chilliwack, (CYCW)
BC on a training flight with two pilots on board. When the gear was selected up, the crew observed
a gear unlocked indication. The gear was cycled and a gear down and safe indication was
achieved. The crew's intent was to return to CYCW, but when they selected flaps down there was
no movement of the flaps and the landing gear down and locked lights faded out. The crew made
the decision to divert to Abbotsford, (CYXX) BC because it had a long runway and emergency
equipment. During the diversion to CYXX, all electrical power was lost and communications
equipment failed. Using a cell phone, the crew contacted the Kamloops Flight Service Station and
declared a Mayday. They explained the situation, stated their intention was to land in CYXX, and
requested to have ARFF standing by. On short final, enough electrical power returned for the crew
to see they had a landing gear down and locked indication. The aircraft landed uneventfully and
taxied to the ramp.
Maintenance determined via a continuity check that the RH alternator field wire had an intermittent
fault caused by a broken wire and / or a bad terminal crimp. They also found the LH engine noise
filter had been removed from the alternator circuit, and wire terminals were taped with automotive
electrical tape.
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co-joe
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Re: Declared Emergency by Phone

Post by co-joe »

plausiblyannonymous wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:24 pm
co-joe wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:17 am
They had to fly on the peanut gyro because of a low battery voltage? That doesn't sound right to me.
No, they flew VMC.
Luckily, but the ramifications of ending up in IMC are there. I have experience on both the 4 dual fed bus system as well as the 1 triple fed bus system and losing both gens due to a bad battery isn't supposed to be possible in either system. Both have protection that is supposed to open the battery relay if voltage drops below 20-22V. My guess is that if the crew had tried a gen reset at least one of their gen relays would have closed, but obviously you'd only try that if you had to.
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iflyforpie
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Re: Declared Emergency by Phone

Post by iflyforpie »

co-joe wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:47 pm
plausiblyannonymous wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:24 pm
co-joe wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:17 am
They had to fly on the peanut gyro because of a low battery voltage? That doesn't sound right to me.
No, they flew VMC.
Luckily, but the ramifications of ending up in IMC are there. I have experience on both the 4 dual fed bus system as well as the 1 triple fed bus system and losing both gens due to a bad battery isn't supposed to be possible in either system. Both have protection that is supposed to open the battery relay if voltage drops below 20-22V. My guess is that if the crew had tried a gen reset at least one of their gen relays would have closed, but obviously you'd only try that if you had to.
Gen reset is a memory item for a dual gen failure. Pretty sure they did it at least once.

Perhaps battery voltage was fine.
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