Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

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Donald
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Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

Post by Donald »

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/pl ... -1.5548521
https://cabinradio.ca/35894/news/buffal ... yone-safe/
IMG_4750.JPG
IMG_4750.JPG (20 KiB) Viewed 9167 times
IMG_4749.JPG
IMG_4749.JPG (75.81 KiB) Viewed 9167 times
According to the news, the crash happened "around 1pm".

1824Z wind 200 25G32 1/4SM -snblsn vv008 m12/m15
1900z wind 200 24G33 1/4SM -snblsn vv004 m12/m15
2000z wind 200 24G32 1/4SM -snblsn vv004 m12/m14
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Re: Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

Post by Zaibatsu »

But Buffalo is still safe because they haven’t killed anyone. That means all those annoying things like CRFI, minimums, and approach ban doesn’t apply to them.
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Re: Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

Post by valleyboy »

approach ban
there is no approach ban there.

I have landed many times in 1/4 mile in the north and it's usually reasonable flight vis and poor vis close to the ground. Finding the runway is simple but staying on it after landing can be tricky especially in a 25kt xwind .
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Re: Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

Post by RadicalRadial »

Zaibatsu wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:15 pm But Buffalo is still safe because they haven’t killed anyone. That means all those annoying things like CRFI, minimums, and approach ban doesn’t apply to them.
FFS. Here we go again. If half the other fricken companies in Canada had cameras examining every action the company and pilots take over the course of six years, I'm sure Buffalo wouldn't seem nearly as bad as biased people like you push to make it out as.
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Re: Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

Post by yhz41 »

Zaibatsu wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:15 pm But Buffalo is still safe because they haven’t killed anyone. That means all those annoying things like CRFI, minimums, and approach ban doesn’t apply to them.
Gravel runways dont have a CRFI. Just a surface condition. That isn't even right half the time.
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Re: Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

Post by rigpiggy »

Zaibatsu wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:15 pm But Buffalo is still safe because they haven’t killed anyone. That means all those annoying things like CRFI, minimums, and approach ban doesn’t apply to them.
pretty hard to have a crfi without equipment to measure it.....
Is this the court party?
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Re: Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

Post by propfeather »

valleyboy wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:21 pm
approach ban
there is no approach ban there.

I have landed many times in 1/4 mile in the north and it's usually reasonable flight vis and poor vis close to the ground. Finding the runway is simple but staying on it after landing can be tricky especially in a 25kt xwind .
True, but there's no RVOP or LVOP in YBB so technically you can't land or taxi. Whether or not the CARs guy writes you up or not is a different matter. I've seen it happen.
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Re: Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

Post by valleyboy »

Whether or not the CARs guy writes you up or not is a different matter.
That can be fixed many ways, small favours go a lone way or you can make sure they have gone home. :smt040

Besides landing, especially in blowing snow one can always be challenged as local phenomenon and depending on the guy for departure just need to do second choice --
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Re: Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

Post by 2R »

Is the left prop feathered ? Any better pictures ?

Gusty cross winds can make a fella look stupider .
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Re: Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

Post by Donald »

yhz41 wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:09 pm
Zaibatsu wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:15 pm But Buffalo is still safe because they haven’t killed anyone. That means all those annoying things like CRFI, minimums, and approach ban doesn’t apply to them.
Gravel runways dont have a CRFI. Just a surface condition. That isn't even right half the time.
Not entirely true. CRFI’s are published at some gravel airports, but their accuracy is a whole other debate.
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Re: Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

Post by goingnowherefast »

How long has it been since Buffalo got their OC back?
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Re: Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

Post by Hilroy »

Buffalo wrecks a plane, in the meantime, fatty McBryan is posting videos of DC3s on floats on Youtube.

#Priorities101
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Re: Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

Post by valleyboy »

Snipe away but we won't know what happened and why until the story is properly told.

Some questions in my mind are what the hell are they doing stooging around in a f'n navajo with no fuel (unless they had a cache at kug or wing lockers) what was their routing and if a standard 'Ho what was and where could the go as an alternate.and wx at yhk and yyh and possibly yux but coming direct from yzf they would not have a lot of reserves and likely had jerry cans of fuel on board. There are a lot of questions and even a major factor might be crew experience, especially north of 66 30 and even did the compass system meet requirements. like i said a standard navajo has no business in the arctic in this day and age and is just plain dangerous as this incident has highlighted.

Possibly they had no choice to go anywhere else and as anyone knows even at 1/4 mile in - SN BS you can still be VFR flight vis but everything is white except for runway and aircraft maneuvering areas. The gps approach is offset but winds were right down the runway. It looks like (given winds) the aircraft appears to ended up at the corner of the aircraft parking area, what did he line up on white out is tricky and again crew experience and local knowledge is a big question. Fortunately there was no loss off life and possibly a lesson can be learned instead of pointing fingers.
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Re: Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

Post by bigsky »

valleyboy wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 7:27 am Snipe away but we won't know what happened and why until the story is properly told.

Some questions in my mind are what the hell are they doing stooging around in a f'n navajo with no fuel (unless they had a cache at kug or wing lockers) what was their routing and if a standard 'Ho what was and where could the go as an alternate.and wx at yhk and yyh and possibly yux but coming direct from yzf they would not have a lot of reserves and likely had jerry cans of fuel on board. There are a lot of questions and even a major factor might be crew experience, especially north of 66 30 and even did the compass system meet requirements. like i said a standard navajo has no business in the arctic in this day and age and is just plain dangerous as this incident has highlighted.

Possibly they had no choice to go anywhere else and as anyone knows even at 1/4 mile in - SN BS you can still be VFR flight vis but everything is white except for runway and aircraft maneuvering areas. The gps approach is offset but winds were right down the runway. It looks like (given winds) the aircraft appears to ended up at the corner of the aircraft parking area, what did he line up on white out is tricky and again crew experience and local knowledge is a big question. Fortunately there was no loss off life and possibly a lesson can be learned instead of pointing fingers.

How did this get associated with a Navajo?
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Re: Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

Post by beaverpuq »

“Turbine Navajo, manufactured for Piper , by Beechcraft”
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Re: Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

Post by godsrcrazy »

Must be a new model of Navajo. Looks like a King Air 100 to me.
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Re: Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

Post by 10milefinal »

valleyboy wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 7:27 am Snipe away but we won't know what happened and why until the story is properly told.

Some questions in my mind are what the hell are they doing stooging around in a f'n navajo with no fuel (unless they had a cache at kug or wing lockers) what was their routing and if a standard 'Ho what was and where could the go as an alternate.and wx at yhk and yyh and possibly yux but coming direct from yzf they would not have a lot of reserves and likely had jerry cans of fuel on board. There are a lot of questions and even a major factor might be crew experience, especially north of 66 30 and even did the compass system meet requirements. like i said a standard navajo has no business in the arctic in this day and age and is just plain dangerous as this incident has highlighted.

Possibly they had no choice to go anywhere else and as anyone knows even at 1/4 mile in - SN BS you can still be VFR flight vis but everything is white except for runway and aircraft maneuvering areas. The gps approach is offset but winds were right down the runway. It looks like (given winds) the aircraft appears to ended up at the corner of the aircraft parking area, what did he line up on white out is tricky and again crew experience and local knowledge is a big question. Fortunately there was no loss off life and possibly a lesson can be learned instead of pointing fingers.
It's true that a 100 in the Arctic is hit or miss sometimes due to limited fuel. You can easily do YZF-YBB in the 100 legally if you can use YHK, or YYH as alternates, but it doesn't mean it's smart depending on weather. The CADOR shows it as a A100, which gives you just over an hour extra fuel. All of the news articles say the flight was from YZF, which is true, it originated there. Flight Aware shows a stop in YCB before heading to YBB.
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Re: Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

Post by digits_ »

bigsky wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 7:46 am How did this get associated with a Navajo?
You have to take into account the pyramid of "AvCanada bitchiness". There was no option to complain about instructing, so the poster reverted to the second level of the pyramid. Some good old 703 bashing!

--------
At the top, you have FTUs and flight instructors. If you have a chance to complain about either one of those, related to the topic at hand or not, you should take the chance. Common areas to display the poster's supremacy to those lowly pilots are: crosswind limits, checklists, not knowing how flying works in the real world, milking students and ineffective instruction. A good AvCanada poster tries to achieve this level in the pyramid at least once a month.

Below that, you have 703 operators. The source of many great stories. One wonders how one could ever survive. Every 703 pilot was and is incompetent and dangerous, except for the pilot telling the story. A chance to complain about a 703 operator should be taken advantage off. Many posts in this category are written as a reply to accidents and incident reports. One should not hesitate to crucify anyone that was vaguely involved in the incident. Merely having been at the same airport at some point satisfies this requirement. Details such as knowledge of the actual events that took place or knowing the airplane type involved are not important. Note that assumptions and opnions equal facts.

Lack of experience is the third level of bitchiness. A pilot who has less experience than the poster will always have much to learn. It will be asserted that anyone who disagrees with the poster will inevitable change their opinion once they reach the experience level of the poster. Anyone who has more experience than the poster, only has that experience because they flew the same hour a thousand times, and this actually have less experience than the poster. Don't forget, this bitchin' can easily be combined with the second level of the pyramid.

Unions. A solid base for the fourth level of the pyramid. The effects of a union on junior pilots, especially in times of economic hardship or economical propserous times -basically any time- are always a source of friction and complaints. Every single action a union takes is orchestrated against the poster for personal and professional reasons. This logic can be extended to unions at other pilot groups. Every action any union takes will always be to screw over the poster. The poster does not have to be part of any union to be negatively affected by those actions. Extra karma if the poster is a student pilot!

The fifth level is comprised of the more senior pilots complaining about the lack of respect of the junior pilots. A trigger event is any post made by a younger pilot on the fourth level. Fifth level of bitchiness posts are almost exclusively triggered by a fourth level of bitchiness session. The reader might wonder if the fifth and fourth level should then not be swapped, as the base of the pyramid should be bigger than the top? This is a common mistake. While a level five bitchiness is usually triggered by a level four, one has to be aware that one level four event can trigger multiple level 5 events. An insecure level five poster will often be more aggressive and spew more hatred, making the level five events in general more intense.

At the base we have the sixth and final level: The Good Old Days. Any bad thing that happens in the present or future, would never have happened back in the past. Change is the root cause of all that is wrong with aviation. An ADF is a luxury. GPS makes pilots crash. A magenta line is an embarrassement and once the poster figures out how ipads work, they will be banished as well. Posts in this category need not be dated, as their truths are eternal. One might expect that only older pilots fall in this category, but this is wrong. All new technology or changes in regulations made after the poster has attained their pilot license, are eligible to be dredged up in the sixth level.
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Re: Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

Post by J31 »

digits_ wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 3:02 pm
bigsky wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 7:46 am How did this get associated with a Navajo?
You have to take into account the pyramid of "AvCanada bitchiness". There was no option to complain about instructing, so the poster reverted to the second level of the pyramid. Some good old 703 bashing!

--------
At the top, you have FTUs and flight instructors. If you have a chance to complain about either one of those, related to the topic at hand or not, you should take the chance. Common areas to display the poster's supremacy to those lowly pilots are: crosswind limits, checklists, not knowing how flying works in the real world, milking students and ineffective instruction. A good AvCanada poster tries to achieve this level in the pyramid at least once a month.

Below that, you have 703 operators. The source of many great stories. One wonders how one could ever survive. Every 703 pilot was and is incompetent and dangerous, except for the pilot telling the story. A chance to complain about a 703 operator should be taken advantage off. Many posts in this category are written as a reply to accidents and incident reports. One should not hesitate to crucify anyone that was vaguely involved in the incident. Merely having been at the same airport at some point satisfies this requirement. Details such as knowledge of the actual events that took place or knowing the airplane type involved are not important. Note that assumptions and opnions equal facts.

Lack of experience is the third level of bitchiness. A pilot who has less experience than the poster will always have much to learn. It will be asserted that anyone who disagrees with the poster will inevitable change their opinion once they reach the experience level of the poster. Anyone who has more experience than the poster, only has that experience because they flew the same hour a thousand times, and this actually have less experience than the poster. Don't forget, this bitchin' can easily be combined with the second level of the pyramid.

Unions. A solid base for the fourth level of the pyramid. The effects of a union on junior pilots, especially in times of economic hardship or economical propserous times -basically any time- are always a source of friction and complaints. Every single action a union takes is orchestrated against the poster for personal and professional reasons. This logic can be extended to unions at other pilot groups. Every action any union takes will always be to screw over the poster. The poster does not have to be part of any union to be negatively affected by those actions. Extra karma if the poster is a student pilot!

The fifth level is comprised of the more senior pilots complaining about the lack of respect of the junior pilots. A trigger event is any post made by a younger pilot on the fourth level. Fifth level of bitchiness posts are almost exclusively triggered by a fourth level of bitchiness session. The reader might wonder if the fifth and fourth level should then not be swapped, as the base of the pyramid should be bigger than the top? This is a common mistake. While a level five bitchiness is usually triggered by a level four, one has to be aware that one level four event can trigger multiple level 5 events. An insecure level five poster will often be more aggressive and spew more hatred, making the level five events in general more intense.

At the base we have the sixth and final level: The Good Old Days. Any bad thing that happens in the present or future, would never have happened back in the past. Change is the root cause of all that is wrong with aviation. An ADF is a luxury. GPS makes pilots crash. A magenta line is an embarrassement and once the poster figures out how ipads work, they will be banished as well. Posts in this category need not be dated, as their truths are eternal. One might expect that only older pilots fall in this category, but this is wrong. All new technology or changes in regulations made after the poster has attained their pilot license, are eligible to be dredged up in the sixth level.
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digits, you have a lot of time on your hands! Good laugh! Thanks! :lol:
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Re: Buffalo Airways - April 28, 2020 - Kugaaruk

Post by valleyboy »

I stand corrected - haha my eye sight is failing me - take the mistaken identity out of it and the fuel issues if they had a viable alternate what was it that suckered them in. As I said 1/4 mile in light snow and blowing snow is not uncommon and conditions are so variable from a visual approach to an approach to minimums only to find out that the viz gets bad in the last few feet so I can certainly understand them proceeding with the approach. So what went wrong and what can be learned, especially for the self dispatch group.

I will mention I have been in and out of Pelly Bay hundreds of times over my many years in the arctic so I do have local knowledge and experience.

As for iPads I for the life of me can't understand anyone using apple products - haha - for the computer literate no one wants an iPad or an iPhone android and Linux is where it's at :smt040
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