Was it the Circuit Breaker

[7ECA]

Ah, it would just so happen that there are breakers that get pulled as part of sop's or for safe maintenance practices, like the start and ign cb's.

Being that that is an approved and/or standard maintenance practice means that people are aware of what's going on; and there's going to be a procedure for returning things to "normal" once completed. Obviously, with humans involved it's possible things may be overlooked - but with redundant checks these should be caught prior to the handoff from maintenance to flight crews.

So you just show up to the airplane hoping that all the knobs, switches and circuit breakers are where they are supposed to be?

Show me where I've suggested anything even remotely resembling that - you won't be able to, obviously; nice try.

If an aircraft has just, or recently come out of maintenance you should be even more diligent than normal in your checks; for obvious reasons. It has nothing at all to do with "not trusting" the AMEs/AMO, but rather being aware of the potential for human error on all sides of the operation... It's a bit like when you take your car in for service, do you just trust that the shop has done everything perfectly - or do you go and kick the tires, pull the dip stick, etc.?

We don't know what caused this particular Twotter to have a ground collision with an MV-22, eventually there'll be a report though. pelmet's disclosure of his own home-brewed procedure does show that the people do things well outside of the expected operational norms; there is the potential for significant consequences. Just because the Captain was able to reset the CB and it ended up being a "nonevent" in no way removes the responsibility for people to follow the fucking POH/AFM/manufacturer approved checklist(s)/SOPs, etc.

[challenger_nami]

If an aircraft has just, or recently come out of maintenance you should be even more diligent than normal in your checks; for obvious reasons. It has nothing at all to do with "not trusting" the AMEs/AMO, but rather being aware of the potential for human error on all sides of the operation... It's a bit like when you take your car in for service, do you just trust that the shop has done everything perfectly - or do you go and kick the tires, pull the dip stick, etc.?

We don't know what caused this particular Twotter to have a ground collision with an MV-22, eventually there'll be a report though. pelmet's disclosure of his own home-brewed procedure does show that the people do things well outside of the expected operational norms; there is the potential for significant consequences. Just because the Captain was able to reset the CB and it ended up being a "nonevent" in no way removes the responsibility for people to follow the fucking POH/AFM/manufacturer approved checklist(s)/SOPs, etc.

@7ECA, I fully agree with you.

[pelmet]

Anyways, bottom line is, check those CB's as it can prevent an accident or damage.

Don't know the whole story in the ground collision accident but it the investigators may look into the possibility of it being a CB issue with the pilot desperately applying brakes and not stopping and only remembering to use reverse when it was too late.

[7ECA]

@7ECA, I fully agree with you.

Nice try pelmet 2.0 (or Son of pelmet); you accuse me of advocating for "just showing up and hoping things are where they are supposed to be" and then promptly ignore the portion of my post where I demand you offer ANY proof of that.

Par for the course.

[challenger_nami]

@7ECA, I fully agree with you.

Nice try pelmet 2.0 (or Son of pelmet); you accuse me of advocating for "just showing up and hoping things are where they are supposed to be" and then promptly ignore the portion of my post where I demand you offer ANY proof of that.

Par for the course.

Now calm down my friend. I was being nice to you. I will avoid calling you names, and so should you.

You said this:

Shit happens, of that there's little doubt. But, does one really need to be on guard for other pilots to be randomly pulling CBs?

And yes, I said , as the pilot, you have to be on guard for anything. You have to do your checks AS IF someone, deliberately or not, has done something to your aircraft’s systems... that person could be the guy sitting next to you.

Have a nice day.

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[pelmet]

Challenger, do you not find it odd that you are being insulted by 7ECA and that he is swearing repeatedly in his posts and is condescending.
Examples:

Maybe pelly should have added that CB he was pulling to his "killer item" checks - but he didn't. Maybe he should have... just not pulled the CB at random? Yeah, I like that option most...

Or... maybe don't @#$! with things that aren't supposed to be fucked with - like pulling CBs; unless there's a procedure for doing so in the POH/AFM/checklist(s), etc.

Maybe he should have... just not pulled the CB at random? Yeah, I like that option most...

Just because the Captain was able to reset the CB and it ended up being a "nonevent" in no way removes the responsibility for people to follow the fucking POH/AFM/manufacturer approved checklist(s)/SOPs, etc.

@7ECA, I fully agree with you.

Nice try pelmet 2.0 (or Son of pelmet); you accuse me of advocating for "just showing up and hoping things are where they are supposed to be" and then promptly ignore the portion of my post where I demand you offer ANY proof of that.

Par for the course.

This is because he is another one with what I call PDS(Pelmet Derangement Syndrome). 7ECA is like the others. The derangement starts off with me posting a nice new thread with a subject strictly involving aviation safety and they reply with a disagreement and get proven wrong(in my opinion) and then they take it personally and become deranged, usually after I treat them the way they treat me. Then they can't help themselves and desperately have to get back at the person who made them look bad(actually, they did it to themselves) like little children do and ruin threads. I think it started with 7ECA in the thread linked below.

viewtopic.php?p=1056056#p1056056

Then the PDS'ers(or some of them) complain to the moderator who seems to have no problem letting them get away with their child-like behaviors and guess what......I was given notice a couple of days ago in advance that I will be banned from the forum. But guess what again......I am expected to choose a new handle because the same guy who will ban me thinks my posts are useful on the forum(or however it was worded).

I suggest that perhaps the others be banned, but I think my days here are numbered. One need only ask what the result is when a random inexperienced pilot comes on this thread and sees what happens. They probably say, why would I ever admit something on this forum to help out someone. I will just be mocked. Now you can see why people don't want to admit errors. I don't plan to again in order to try and help. Because you get the likes of 7ECA and his responses, all of which just helps keep the accident rate up. All due to PDS. I think they hang over the forum like vultures....waiting, waiting for the attack opportunity.

A psychiatrist would have a field day on this forum.

[challenger_nami]

Challenger, do you not find it odd that you are being insulted by 7ECA and that he is swearing repeatedly in his posts and is condescending.
Examples:

Maybe pelly should have added that CB he was pulling to his "killer item" checks - but he didn't. Maybe he should have... just not pulled the CB at random? Yeah, I like that option most...

Or... maybe don't @#$! with things that aren't supposed to be fucked with - like pulling CBs; unless there's a procedure for doing so in the POH/AFM/checklist(s), etc.

Maybe he should have... just not pulled the CB at random? Yeah, I like that option most...

Just because the Captain was able to reset the CB and it ended up being a "nonevent" in no way removes the responsibility for people to follow the fucking POH/AFM/manufacturer approved checklist(s)/SOPs, etc.

@7ECA, I fully agree with you.

Nice try pelmet 2.0 (or Son of pelmet); you accuse me of advocating for "just showing up and hoping things are where they are supposed to be" and then promptly ignore the portion of my post where I demand you offer ANY proof of that.

Par for the course.

This is because he is another one with what I call PDS(Pelmet Derangement Syndrome). 7ECA is like the others. The derangement starts off with me posting a nice new thread with a subject strictly involving aviation safety and they reply with a disagreement and get proven wrong(in my opinion) and then they take it personally and become deranged, usually after I treat them the way they treat me. Then they can't help themselves and desperately have to get back at the person who made them look bad(actually, they did it to themselves) like little children do and ruin threads. I think is started with 7ECA in the thread linked below.

viewtopic.php?f=118&t=123257&start=40

Then the PDS'ers(or some of them) complain to the moderator who seems to have no problem letting them get away with their child-like behaviors and guess what......I was given notice a couple of days ago in advance that I will be banned from the forum. But guess what again......I am expected to choose a new handle because the same guy who will ban me thinks my posts are useful on the forum(or however it was worded).

I suggest that perhaps the others be banned but I think my days here are numbered. One need only ask what the result is when a random inexperienced pilot comes on this thread and sees what happens. They probably say, why would I ever admit something on this forum to help out someone. I will just be mocked. Now you can see why people don't want to admit errors. I don't plan to again in order to try and help. Because you get the likes of 7ECA and his responses, all of which just helps keep the accident rate up. All due to PDS. I think they hang over the forum like vultures....waiting, waiting for the attack opportunity.

A psychiatrist would have a field day on this forum.

@Pelmet,
I do not know your history with some of the other users at this forum, but from 3 months ago that I became relatively active here, I have seen mostly positive and credible safety oriented posts from you. Of course I witnessed you being trolled about those posts which you responded to, which would be fair.

It would be very unfortunate if you get banned. And it would be super unfortunate if the ones trolling you get away. That would set a bad example, and I hope the Moderators don’t set that bad example.

Your posts bring a good chunk of credible substance to the forum.

As I said before, Trolls will be Trolls. They feed on their own negativity. It’s funny that sometimes, the troll turns the issue around and plays the victim. Really Funny, in a Sad way.

Even if you end up being banned, do come back with the handle @Pelmet3.0 .... don’t you chose @Pelmet2.0, because as @7ECA gave me that title.

By the way, yes I do think things he said were odd, but I did not feel insulted. I would only feel insulted if I heard things like that from someone I respected.

I personally am adopting a policy of not engaging with the trolls ... Being ignored is the worst thing for a troll.





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[Aviatard]

I like Pelmet. He posts stuff that nobody cares about and isn’t afraid of anything.

[PanEuropean]

https://news.usni.org/2020/06/12/skydiv ... aging-both

This accident reminds me of an event I had many years ago up in Tanquary Fiord(nice place). We overnighted in the Twin Otter. A lot of captains would pull the CB for the hydraulic pump at night(to minimize any battery power use prior to the next engine start just in case the battery was low). This captain had not done that but I decided to do it later assuming he forgot which was a bad idea. Even worse, I didn't remember to tell him about it. The next day, when we went into the aircraft, he started the engines and we started rolling forward as we had no brakes. Of course, no one had checked the CB's. The captain immediately knew the problem and reached over and pushed in the breaker and we then had brakes.

I wonder if that was happened here. Check the CB's before starting.

It's tragic that a ground accident may have happened in 2020 as a result of a hydraulic pump CB being pulled in a Twin Otter.

The AFM for both the Series 300 and Series 400 was revised in 2010 to include the instruction shown below:



The preflight checklist published in the AFM includes the line: "Circuit Breakers - All In (Main Panel, Avionics Panel, station 332 panel)"

[2R]

Some switch’s are also circuit breakers . A plain CB is not a switch and loses effectiveness as a circuit breaker if used as a switch .
Anyone deliberately using a CB as a switch is degrading the safety of that CB . Allowing finger grease and dirt into the CB which might mean the difference between the CB operating as designed or welding up and causing a fire .
Pulling a CB is a big deal , it might be the only thing separating you from a fire , do not abuse them .
If you notice a CB out on the walk around , Investigate Why it is out , as if your life depends on it !