Debris falls from 777 during emergency landing.

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Re: Debris falls from 777 during emergency landing.

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Re: Debris falls from 777 during emergency landing.

Post by geodoc »

More on the fan blade(s) failure:






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montado
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Re: Debris falls from 777 during emergency landing.

Post by montado »

schnitzel2k3 wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:51 am What's the Air Canada 777 fleet using?
GE90

The affected triples are the first generation. I read that this specific one in the incident was the 5th 777 off the line but this could be wrong.
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Heliian
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Re: Debris falls from 777 during emergency landing.

Post by Heliian »

I'd love to see the vibe data from this incident. I wonder if there were any indicators prior to failure.
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Re: Debris falls from 777 during emergency landing.

Post by digits_ »

If you want to be a bit of a devil's advocate, an incident like this might be grounds for the FAA to look a bit deeper into the engine and ETOPS certification. One would hope they didn't cut any corners for that certification. Could turn ugly... Especially considering another boeing had similar issues on the same day. Unrelated and a coincidence, but it might be an extra trigger for a more thorough look.
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: Debris falls from 777 during emergency landing.

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

montado wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:04 pm
schnitzel2k3 wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:51 am What's the Air Canada 777 fleet using?
GE90

The affected triples are the first generation. I read that this specific one in the incident was the 5th 777 off the line but this could be wrong.
Thank you montado - glad Air Canada is unaffected. I don't think they could take that setback as I think their 777s are pulling a lot of weight right now running cargo and passenger services.

Be interesting to see the report.
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Re: Debris falls from 777 during emergency landing.

Post by Canoehead »

geodoc wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:44 pm More on the fan blade(s) failure:






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Juan does a great job on these.
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boeingboy
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Re: Debris falls from 777 during emergency landing.

Post by boeingboy »

digits_ wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:26 pm If you want to be a bit of a devil's advocate, an incident like this might be grounds for the FAA to look a bit deeper into the engine and ETOPS certification. One would hope they didn't cut any corners for that certification. Could turn ugly... Especially considering another boeing had similar issues on the same day. Unrelated and a coincidence, but it might be an extra trigger for a more thorough look.
You mean like they should with the LEAP engine?

:roll:
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boeingboy
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Re: Debris falls from 777 during emergency landing.

Post by boeingboy »

Canoehead wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:23 pm
geodoc wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:44 pm More on the fan blade(s) failure:






.
Juan does a great job on these.
Not bad....but I think he was trying too hard to make it into another Southwest scenario.
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Re: Debris falls from 777 during emergency landing.

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Re: Debris falls from 777 during emergency landing.

Post by pelmet »

Canoehead wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:23 pm
geodoc wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:44 pm More on the fan blade(s) failure:


Juan does a great job on these.
I wouldn't blindly accept everything he says. I am going through the video now and you may very well want to dump fuel in the event of an engine failure, when returning to land, even if the performance shows that the aircraft is capable of it, especially if very heavy.
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Re: Debris falls from 777 during emergency landing.

Post by mbav8r »

pelmet wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:06 pm
Canoehead wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:23 pm
geodoc wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:44 pm More on the fan blade(s) failure:


Juan does a great job on these.
I wouldn't blindly accept everything he says. I am going through the video now and you may very well want to dump fuel in the event of an engine failure, when returning to land, even if the performance shows that the aircraft is capable of it, especially if very heavy.
To be clear, I have not read much about this event however I did see the video of the engine still on fire and I believe the fire indication lasted long after the second bottle discharge, if not, all the way to just before landing. Last I checked fuel and fire are not a good combination, maybe better to land a little heavy.
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Re: Debris falls from 777 during emergency landing.

Post by pelmet »

mbav8r wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:22 pm
pelmet wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:06 pm
Canoehead wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:23 pm

Juan does a great job on these.
I wouldn't blindly accept everything he says. I am going through the video now and you may very well want to dump fuel in the event of an engine failure, when returning to land, even if the performance shows that the aircraft is capable of it, especially if very heavy.
To be clear, I have not read much about this event however I did see the video of the engine still on fire and I believe the fire indication lasted long after the second bottle discharge, if not, all the way to just before landing. Last I checked fuel and fire are not a good combination, maybe better to land a little heavy.
An engine fire is different. But he was saying this as a blanket statement about an engine failure. I am now partway through the first video(after having finished the second video). Now he is saying that the first thing you want to do is get a mayday call out. I would suggest emphasis on aircraft control first and ensuring that the engine-out procedure being adhered to, which he stated is applicable about earlier due to the Rocky Mountains looming ahead(if still appropriate by the time the engine failed). That would fit the aviate, navigate, communicate line of thinking.

In addition, Juan tells us that their choice of runway 26 "is probably the best for the winds". Why would it be best to land with a right crosswind when your right engine is on fire. Remember the British Airtours 737 fire in Manchester where it was concluded that the crosswind resulted in more deaths because the wind blew the fire toward the cabin. The 777 QRH states for an RTO......."Consider the following: wind direction in case of fire". Logic would apply that to a landing as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_A ... p8fig5.jpg

Instead, he is telling us the the 'One consideration" is maybe landing on a different runway than takeoff due to possible debris when the engine failure didn't even happen until they were well into the climb.
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Re: Debris falls from 777 during emergency landing.

Post by mbav8r »

I see, just commenting on the fuel dump, look at the pictures on avherald, the fire burned despite the fuel shut off working and both bottles discharged. Not a situation where I’d be dumping fuel unless absolutely necessary, ie going off the end of the runway into a ravine is the other choice.
Anyhow, haven’t watched these videos, sounds like an armchair quarterback with his own opinions.
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Re: Debris falls from 777 during emergency landing.

Post by Heliian »

mbav8r wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:15 am I see, just commenting on the fuel dump, look at the pictures on avherald, the fire burned despite the fuel shut off working and both bottles discharged. Not a situation where I’d be dumping fuel unless absolutely necessary, ie going off the end of the runway into a ravine is the other choice.
Anyhow, haven’t watched these videos, sounds like an armchair quarterback with his own opinions.
fire suppression doesn't work that well, if at all, with no cowlings.
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Re: Debris falls from 777 during emergency landing.

Post by pelmet »

pelmet wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:49 pm

In addition, Juan tells us that their choice of runway 26 "is probably the best for the winds". Why would it be best to land with a right crosswind when your right engine is on fire. Remember the British Airtours 737 fire in Manchester where it was concluded that the crosswind resulted in more deaths because the wind blew the fire toward the cabin. The 777 QRH states for an RTO......."Consider the following: wind direction in case of fire". Logic would apply that to a landing as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_A ... p8fig5.jpg
A good example of an engine fire on a 777. Imagine if they had a right crosswind.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4ilf1d
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