Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

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C-FABH
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Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by C-FABH »

Hi folks,

Getting news of another crash at Buttonville. Initial reports are one occupant that has been fatally injured. Will post more info as it become available.

Update: 18:33:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article ... er-a-month
Police and firefighters are on scene after a plane crashed around the Buttonville airport near Markham at around 5:30 p.m Sunday.

They are not releasing information about injuries or damages at this time.

Nearby portions of 16th Ave. and Highway 404 have been closed off pending investigation.

Amit Kohli, a witness who works on the 8th floor of neighbouring 45 Vogell Rd., said that the plane is a small, black two-seater and that the cockpit appears to be empty from his vantage point.

“I heard a big thump and when I saw it there was no one around it,” he said, “The plane was engulfed in flames as it dropped.”

This is the second crash to occur near the Buttonville airport in under a month.

The pilot of a Cirrus SR20, which had just taken off from Buttonville, and a passenger died on May 25 when the plane crashed into Thinkway Toys, a toy-manufacturing firm at 12:20 p.m.
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robbreid
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by robbreid »

I was out at YKZ this afternoon, and watched the Cessna 172K banner plane (all black) depart and pick up his banner at the NE corner of YKZ which would be 16th and 404.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Skywords ... 912e00d653

Anyone familiar with YKZ, would know the all black aircraft by description alone.
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by jakey »

Story on CTV with video clip:
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/ ... ntoNewHome

Per the report, aircraft owned by Skywords.
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by HavaJava »

Awful news.

My first job was with this company and I have very mixed feelings about the company. I enjoyed the flying but it had the potential to be very dangerous.

This pilot was probably doing his (or her...don't know yet) best as a brand new CPL and getting paid very little for the difficulty level of the work. When I was there we were getting paid a measly $20 per mission (that included banner building, setup, flying, and cleanup). I was lucky to have an excellent chief pilot, but I don't have much good to say about the owners.

My deepest condolances to the pilot's family and friends.
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jakey
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by jakey »

Closer pic from the Sun's site:
Image

At: http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoa ... 57666.html
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Chris
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by Chris »

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/cykz/ ... -2100Z.mp3

It was a banner drop.

I will second HavaJava's remarks. I had some scary times in that plane.

Condolences to the family.
:(
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flyinthebug
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by flyinthebug »

Jesus. Not again. My sincere condolences to this young pilots family and friends. Skywords was always known as a decent place to start and get some PIC. Yet another sad day for aviation.


God speed.
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DanWEC
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by DanWEC »

Tragic. I wonder what happened? There isn't really anything in the atc recording relevent to the crash. It most likely happened right at the end of tape, QOR was cleared for the low and over for the banner drop, but no other mention of anything after that. There is a long pause and one caller told to standby from the tower about 30 seconds before the end of the recording. Atc could have been on the phone or finding out about it there, but no radio info from other pilots or a mayday call from the pilot of QOR himself. The pilot sounded young as well. Awful.
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by HavaJava »

There is a lot going on during a banner drop. You are descending in a low airspeed/low power state, trying to get the banner as low as possible when you drop it without dragging it along the ground or hitting any buildings/obstacles on the approach. You are dividing your time between looking forward out the windshield (and at airspeed) and looking out the rear window to try to judge the height and drift of the banner. It is a very dynamic situation and as soon as you drop you have to apply full power and deal with a plane that is often out of trim and in a new aerodynamic situation. On a day like today with strong and gusty winds, illusions created by drift make the maneuver far more difficult. I found the banner drop to be just as challenging/dangerous as the pick-up.

Also, CYKZ has a relatively tight area for banner operations. You are hemmed in by runways and the 404. It is a challenging operation to say the least.

Please do not take any of what I stated above as any sort of fact or even speculation as to what happened during this accident. I am just trying to portray to the average pilot some of the challenges a banner pilot experiences.
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robbreid
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by robbreid »

Very, very sad.

As I was saying above, I watched him taxi out of the FlightExec ramp, two Cherokees where taxiing for departure, and C-GQOR back taxied down the runway, quickly did a 180 and departed, did one circuit and picked up his banner.

I've watched C-GQOR a few times pick up banners, and it sure looks like one scary move!!!

Condolences to family and friends, very sorry for your loss.
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Nark
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by Nark »

First, my thoughts and prayers go to this persons family and friends.



Secondly, the 172 is a horrible plane for banners. The wing is way to small.

Third, why would you accept $20 a flight, let alone the setup, dismantle etc...?

I've several hundred if not thousand banner pick up and drops. Pick up being more dangerous than the drop, as you are on the cusp of stall, then transition to slow flight.
The drop being what havaJava stated, however you should be no where near the stall as in the pickup. The aircraft wants to slingshot out of slow flight as all the drag is suddenly lost (when the banner is dropped).
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by winds_in_flight_wtf »

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ETOPS
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by ETOPS »

Terrible news. 2 crashes, 3 dead in less then 1 month...
Condolences to the friends and family.
Nark wrote: Third, why would you accept $20 a flight, let alone the setup, dismantle etc...?
There are allot of pilots in and around Toronto, and not so many jobs.
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wan2fly99
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by wan2fly99 »

I would like to offer my condolence to the family of the deceased aviator
Even thought I don't know the aviator, he/she was trying to follow the dream of flying just like everybody is on this board, but it ended tragically

Everybody please be careful out there

My prayers go out
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loopy
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by loopy »

My condolences to family and friends.
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by 2775PSI »

Ugh! Sad news again! Also my condolences to his family and friends.

That plane had an engine failure and landed safely in Sunnybrook Park a while back didn't it??
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by Pratt X 3 »

Looks like we have a celebrity in our midst. A veteran pilot even. How many misquotes are there in this article? Besides the Cessna 170-2K, how did the ace reporter get “damage to the airplane shows me it stalled” from "I have no comment on the cause of this crash as that is the job of the TSB." Gee, I hate when the media does that. The first rule of Flight Club is: you do not talk about Flight Club. The second rule of Flight Club is: you DO NOT talk about Flight Club! :mrgreen:
Pilot killed in crash
By IAN ROBERTSON AND DON PEAT, TORONTO SUN
Last Updated: June 21, 2010 10:42am

RICHMOND HILL — A man is dead after a fiery crash near the Buttonville Airport Sunday — the second time in a month a small plane has crashed near the airport.

Speaking at the scene of the crash, near 16th Ave. and Hwy. 404, veteran pilot Robert Reid told the Sun the unidentified pilot was flying alone in the 40-year-old advertising banner-towing plane. Reid said the plane that crashed in the vacant parking lot around 5:25 p.m., had no trouble when he saw him take off two hours earlier. He said the black, 1970 Cessna 170-2K, regularly took off for the company, Skywords Aerial Advertising, on a moving pick-up of long banners. “They can’t take-off with a banner,” said Reid, a pilot with more than 30 years experience. Standing across the street from where investigators and paramedics were poring through the wreckage, Reid said, “damage to the airplane shows me it stalled.” He saw the plane first take off around 3:25 p.m., do one circuit, pick up a banner and then fly towards Toronto’s downtown.

York Regional Police Insp. Steve Seabrooke told reporters at the scene that after the flames were extinguished by fire crews, a body was found inside the airplane. Police are trying to locate the owner of the plane, Seabrooke said. “The name and age of the dead pilot won’t be released until relatives are notified,” he said. Seabrooke would only say the flyer lived in the GTA.

At the sound of the plane crashing into the parking lot near 45 Vogell Rd., Amit Kohli ran to the window of the eighth floor office where he was working. “I saw it burning,” he said. “There was no sign of anyone.” “If it had flown from 10 to 15 seconds more, it would have hit our building,” Kohli said.

Rae Simpson, a senior investigator with the Transportation Safety Board of Canada, said the aircraft had just returned from an earlier banner mission and had successfully dropped off the banner on the airfield. Simpson said that after flying over the highway, the nose of the aircraft dropped and it crashed into the parking lot. “It could easily have struck a building,” Simpson said. “I’m sure there will be questions ... there is nothing at all that appears similar (to the May 25 crash). This is a random thing.”

On May 25, a small plane with a pilot and passenger on board crashed into Thinkway Toys, at 8895 Woodbine Ave., shortly after taking from Buttonville Airport. Both the pilot and passenger died in the crash. That incident is still being probed by the Transportation Safety Board of Canada.
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoa ... 58106.html
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by gustind »

CADOR # 2010O1408 wrote: The Torres Aviation Incorporated - Skywords Aerial Advertising Cessna 172K aircraft (C-GQOR) was on a local VFR banner-tow flight from Toronto (Buttonville) Municipal Airport (CYKZ). C-GQOR was returning from a banner tow operation, released his banner west of Taxiway "C' on the airfield. Having completed the banner drop the aircraft commenced his climb out to join the circuit and land at the Buttonville airport. The controller observed the aircraft 1/2 mile northwest of the airport in a nose down attitude and shortly after smoke was observed in the general direction of where the aircraft was. At 18:42 EDT JRCC Trenton reported that the pilot is deceased. There were no passengers. JRCC could not confirm the specific location of the crash. The location was later stated as near Highway 404 and 16th Ave. in an empty parking lot. The TSB attended the accident location.
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Chris
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by Chris »

More details....and the identity of the 23 yr old pilot.

http://www.yorkregion.com/news/local/ar ... afe-sifton

:cry:
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by tedcuthbert »

Sounds like it was a kid just working his but off to build some hours, hard not to know that plane if you live in the GTA, it's been buzzing overhead for years - Tragic. Been a bad stretch in southern Ont, hope that's the end of it.
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by Finn47 »

http://www.metronews.ca/toronto/local/a ... t-missions
According to some members of the aviation community, aerial advertising is a low-paying entry-level job that many young pilots like Archer choose to do in order to log more flying hours required for other positions.

However, due to the aggressive manoeuvring the pilots have to complete at a low altitude, the job is potentially quite dangerous, exposing young pilots to an inordinate amount of risk.
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by crooked timber »

RIP

here's the original (longer) article from the one above

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article ... aerial-ads
Buttonville crash exposes danger of piloting aerial ads
Young pilots drawn to this work to log needed hours

They are a familiar sight across the sky at sporting events: small, single-person airplanes stringing along bannered messages for beer, banks or local businesses.

But piloting one of these aerial advertising missions involves dangerous manoeuvres and complex techniques that may have led to the death of a young Whitby man near Buttonville airport Sunday.

Andrew Archer, 23, crashed into a parking lot in the 16th Ave. and Highway 404 area near the airport.

The Cessna 172 was owned by Skywords Inc, a Toronto-based company that offers “outdoor advertising solutions” to businesses, as well as airborne traffic reports.

Archer, described as an “avid pilot” by those at Buttonville airport where he worked for the past four years, was a 2009 graduate of Seneca College’s flight technology program.

According to some members of the aviation community, aerial advertising is a low-paying, entry-level job that many young pilots like Archer choose in order to log the flying hours required for other positions.

However, due to the aggressive manoeuvring pilots must perform at a low altitude, the job is potentially quite dangerous.

“It is dangerous and complex, compared to any other flying there is,” says Syed Quadri, a 32-year-old pilot and general manager of the Aero Academy flight school in London, Ont.

“Everybody in this industry kind of knows that people going into these kinds of jobs are the young pilots with little experience than the average pilot in the industry. As you go on to become more experienced, you actually get into a safer environment where safety is more of a concern.”

Jeffrey Dignard, director of operations at Higher Power Aerial Advertising, said picking up and dropping off a typical advertising banner is “tricky.”

Since the plane cannot take off with the banner, it must make a few circuits after takeoff, then use a hook on its back to catch a rope attached to the banner between two poles on the runway.

After the plane is done, the pilot releases the banner onto the runway, being mindful not to scratch it or release it onto other planes or areas outside the designated location.

It is only after the banner is dropped that the plane can land.

A Transportation Safety Board official said Archer’s aircraft had dropped its banner near the runway before it crashed.

“This business is used by many young pilots as a time-building venture, a stepping stone to move into other positions that require more time,” said David Dempsey, owner of the U.S.-based aerial advertising company High Exposure Inc.

He added that with youth, might come “some inexperience and more of a feeling of resilience,” which can be a problem when trying to manoeuvre the plane.

So should the aviation industry continue to expose young flight graduates to the dangers of aerial advertising in the wake of Archer’s death?

For Quadri, a pilot for 13 years, the question comes down to money.

“The way the industry looks at it, they (the pilots) are not carrying anyone on board, so the insurance and everything related to it is a lot less,” he said.

With the competition for flight jobs tough, the prospect of being able to log flight hours and make a buck or two despite the risk is appealing.

“If I was a fresh student with a fresh commercial licence, I would get a job like that,” Quadri said.

The Transportation Safety Board said its crash investigation continues.
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by robbreid »

Pilot Andrew Archer was a 2009 Seneca Graduate.

Full Story - Toronto Star 'Buttonville crash exposes danger of piloting aerial ads'.
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by Old fella »

So sad.... so sad to hear of such a young life snuffed out doing work towards his ultimate goal of being in the left seat of some big airplane. Sincere and deepest condolences to his family/friends.

OF
:( :(
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Re: Crash - Buttonville CYKZ

Post by Romantic Lung »

You know what?

This is a horrible accident. A young man's life has been ended abruptly. His family and the people in his life won't ever see him again. My sincerest sympathies goes out to them.

I am deeply saddened and unsettled by this accident, as it seemed unnecessary.

It is a shame, to jump to the conclusion, that this happened because banner towing is unsafe.
Perhaps there is more risk in towing, but this should be accompanied by commensurate amount of training.


Considering Andrew had barely 2 months experience working there.


Question: Was it more important: to sell these banners, or take the time to train a pilot properly?
This young man has possibly answered this question in blood.



I'm am truly sorry for the loss suffered by the people he knew. And I apologize for the terse character of this blog.
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Last edited by Romantic Lung on Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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