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fleet16b
 Post subject: T33 Accident at Hamilton
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:06 pm 
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On Friday evening , a T33 from the Jet Aircraft Museum in London Ontario, misjudged it's approach and landed approx 900 ft short of the runway threshold.
Port gear was sheared off on impact and the aircraft became airborne for a very short period before impacting and running off the side of the runway and into soft ground. I am told by the people that semoved her from the scene that the stb gear did not shear but was inbedded into the ground almost its whole length.
No injuries to the pilot but the aircraft is most likely beyond repairing at any reasonable expense.

Present at the show was a very experienced former T33 Pilot that just happened to be one of the Test pilots that did the T33 acceptance testing for the RCAF.
I wont publically quote him but he had some really interesting insight into that type , the incident and his theory as to what most likely happened.

All together an unfortunate incident and a real blow to the J. A. M.


Last edited by fleet16b on Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Colonel Sanders
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:33 am 
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Oh my god. You don't need to be a T-33 test pilot
to know what happened. Any jet instructor pilot has
a pretty good idea.

I'm really sorry to hear about this. I hate it when good
airplanes are trashed.


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sidestick stirrer
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:13 pm 
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The T-bird is indeed a sad sight and every spectator at the Airshow were treated to a close driveby as they were shuttled back to the parking area via a fleet of school buses.
It is listing slightly to the left side where there is no landing gear.
Both ailerons appear to have been removed, there is damage to the outer edge of the left-side horizontal stabilizer/elevator tip and the left tip tank is lying beside the wingtip.
Knowing how tough these old birds are, I'm not sure that it will be declared a write off just yet.


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whistlerboy02
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:37 am 
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900 feet short on a 10,000ft runway?


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FlyGy
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:38 am 
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Just wondering, was it a T33 or a CT-133?


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fleet16b
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:18 am 
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whistlerboy02 wrote:
900 feet short on a 10,000ft runway?


From the very high time T-33 pilot I was with I learned that
on approach the aircraft is at 20 % power .
If you have to select more power or full power , these turbines take a bit of time to spool up again,
so if the approach / decent rate is not judge properly you may not be able to check the rapid decent fast enough. Hence you don't make the runway. Apparently a typical mistake if you are low time pilot on this type or have not flown one in a long time.
There are others here with Jet time that can explain this better I am sure


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RatherBeFlying
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:30 am 
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A lot of early jets ended up short of the runway because of long spool up times, including early airliners.


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Colonel Sanders
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:47 am 
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When I issue type ratings for the L39, I tell the
pilot that there are 3 things they need to learn
to do (for normal ops)

1) learn to start it
2) learn to taxi it
3) learn to control the airspeed on final

Typical jet newbie mistake: turns final, sees
the airspeed too high. Cuts off WAY too much
throttle, but he doesn't know he's made a terrible
mistake. Airspeed comes down. Everything looks
good. Airspeed continues to come down, and the
turbine is spooled down. Pilot notices slow airspeed,
and applies too much throttle, too late, and into
the ground short of the threshold you go.

IIRC in addition the P-80/T-33 nene-10 FCU is not
very sophisticated which can cause other problems
but that's another story.

I know that there are a lot of people here on AvCan
that think they're a lot better pilot than I am, but
I fly the L39 the same way I fly the C421 - with an
absolute minimum of throttle jockeying.

In the 421, it's 21 inches of MP on downwind, and
I gradually increase the drag with the gear and flaps.
A good approach will not have me touching the
throttles until they are pulled back for touchdown.

Same in the L39 - set the N1 to 83% if I am light,
85% if I am heavy with gas on downwind. Lower
the gear and flap, and if I fly it right, I don't need
to touch the throttles until I'm over the numbers.

Again, there are a lot of people here who think
they're much better pilots than I am, so why don't
we go with their way of flying piston and jet aircraft.


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linecrew
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:15 am 
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Location: On final so get off the damn runway!
FlyGy wrote:
Just wondering, was it a T33 or a CT-133?


CT-133; former 133346, currently C-FUPM


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Ktmboy
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:17 pm 
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The true story:

On June 15th 2012 the Jet Aircraft Museums T-33 Silver Star serial #133346 was involved in an incident during landing at the Hamilton International Airport. Upon arriving at the airport the T-33 crew preformed a closed landing pattern and due to circumstances still under investigation, a failure of its left side main landing gear occurred. Due to the failure of the left hand gear the aircraft then proceeded to slide off to the left of the runway and came to rest in the grass. The planes crew was able to evacuate and then secure the aircraft. Both crew members where unharmed and walked away from the aircraft with out a scratch. The aircraft has now been recovered to a secure site with the assistance of the airport and is now currently under going evaluation by maintenance personnel.


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fleet16b
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:45 am 
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Ktmboy wrote:
The true story:

On June 15th 2012 the Jet Aircraft Museums T-33 Silver Star serial #133346 was involved in an incident during landing at the Hamilton International Airport. Upon arriving at the airport the T-33 crew preformed a closed landing pattern and due to circumstances still under investigation, a failure of its left side main landing gear occurred. Due to the failure of the left hand gear the aircraft then proceeded to slide off to the left of the runway and came to rest in the grass. The planes crew was able to evacuate and then secure the aircraft. Both crew members where unharmed and walked away from the aircraft with out a scratch. The aircraft has now been recovered to a secure site with the assistance of the airport and is now currently under going evaluation by maintenance personnel.


y
You are quoting from an "official" statement put out by the JAM

After speaking with Transport Canada investigation and the salvage crew, the above statement seems misleading.

From T/C and the salvage people I spoke with:
-Pilot misjudged the rate of decent and undershot the runway by approx 600 - 100 ft ( varying opinions)
- due to slow spool up of engine type, pilot was unable to check the decent rate and landed way short.
- left gear was located 200 yds short of the runway due to being sheared off by landing in soft rough surface
- right gear was still on the a/c but imbedded into the soft ground of runway

It will all come out in the official report once the investigation is complete.
The way it looks is that JAM is trying to save face on what happened.
If what I am told is true, JAM is going to look very foolish for issuing a false statement
They should just own up to what really happened.
Hey we all make mistakes sometimes


Last edited by fleet16b on Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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linecrew
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:39 pm 
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Location: On final so get off the damn runway!
From CADORS 2012O1588

Quote:
Narrative:

The privately-operated Jet Aircraft Museum Canadair T-33 Mk.3 aircraft (C-FUPM) was on a VFR flight from Kitchener/Waterloo Regional Airport (CYKF) to Hamilton (JCMIA) (CYHM). NAV CANADA staff at Hamilton Tower reported that the aircraft touched down quite hard just short of runway 06 and then veered to the left into the grass, ending up about 300 feet off the side of the runway. After landing, the pilot indicated a landing gear problem. There were no injuries. Ops. impact – none. A Transport Canada Inspector advised that the landing gear was sheared off.

UPDATE Supplemental information received from T.S.B. Daily Notification [#A12O0084]: The Jet Aircraft Museum Canadair CT-133 (T-33) aircraft (C-FUPM) was on a positioning flight from Kitchener to Hamilton when the aircraft landed short of runway 06. The aircraft touched down in the grass short of the runway and the left main landing gear broke off, damaging the left wing, flaps, stabilizer and elevator. The aircraft skidded approximately 700 meters down the runway and exited off the left side of runway 06 into the infield and came to rest approximately 180 meters from the edge of the runway. The pilot opened the canopy normally and both the pilot and passenger exited the aircraft. There were no injuries.


Again, thankfully nobody was injured.


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fleet16b
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:18 pm 
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linecrew wrote:
From CADORS 2012O1588

Quote:
Narrative:

The privately-operated Jet Aircraft Museum Canadair T-33 Mk.3 aircraft (C-FUPM) was on a VFR flight from Kitchener/Waterloo Regional Airport (CYKF) to Hamilton (JCMIA) (CYHM). NAV CANADA staff at Hamilton Tower reported that the aircraft touched down quite hard just short of runway 06 and then veered to the left into the grass, ending up about 300 feet off the side of the runway. After landing, the pilot indicated a landing gear problem. There were no injuries. Ops. impact – none. A Transport Canada Inspector advised that the landing gear was sheared off.

UPDATE Supplemental information received from T.S.B. Daily Notification [#A12O0084]: The Jet Aircraft Museum Canadair CT-133 (T-33) aircraft (C-FUPM) was on a positioning flight from Kitchener to Hamilton when the aircraft landed short of runway 06. The aircraft touched down in the grass short of the runway and the left main landing gear broke off, damaging the left wing, flaps, stabilizer and elevator. The aircraft skidded approximately 700 meters down the runway and exited off the left side of runway 06 into the infield and came to rest approximately 180 meters from the edge of the runway. The pilot opened the canopy normally and both the pilot and passenger exited the aircraft. There were no injuries.


Again, thankfully nobody was injured.


Absolutely!!! thats the most important thing.

Too bad about the aircraft .
With a landing gear sheared off , this becomes a very very expensive repair.
That and all the other damage will most likely result in a write off situation.
Ofcourse anything is possible to rebuild if you have enough bucks but is it logical to repair or try to just locate another flying aircraft and reduce the damaged one to spares.
Most of these small groups work on a very small budget and an accident like this can be hard to recover from.
I wish JAM well and hope they get thru this incident.


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pelmet
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:47 pm 
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Is it true that another of their aircraft was damaged recently(perhaps non-operationally)?


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cgzro
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:11 pm 
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Something I observed while carrying a helmet cam for every acro flight for a few years was that my recollection of what I did vs what the camera showed were sometimes different.
One time I completely skipped a manoeuvre without realizing it wierd.
So im sure its possible after an incident like this for a pilot to be certain things happened quite differently than observers. Stress is a bitch.


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Colonel Sanders
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:18 pm 
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Quote:
CADORS 2012O1588

NAV CANADA staff at Hamilton Tower reported that the aircraft touched down quite hard just short of runway 06


Calling that a "landing gear failure" is a bit confusing. I don't know of many aircraft with landing gear that is designed to withstand touching down "quite hard" short of the runway.

I'm glad no one was hurt. I'm sure it was a pretty rough ride, with possibly structural fuselage and/or wing damage.


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