Emirates 380 de declares an emergency and heads to YOW

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altiplano
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Emirates 380 de declares an emergency and heads to YOW

Post by altiplano »

I guess they will get into more Canadian cities one way or another...

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Giant% ... story.html
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ILovePlanes
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Re: Emirates 380 de declares an emergency and heads to YOW

Post by ILovePlanes »

Here's the flight data from FlightAware.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE2 ... /OMDB/CYYZ
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HighT5
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Re: Emirates 380 de declares an emergency and heads to YOW

Post by HighT5 »

Looks like they went missed in yyz. Weather was rainy and a bit windy, but nothing out of the ordinary for a bad weather day.
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kevind
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Re: Emirates 380 de declares an emergency and heads to YOW

Post by kevind »

Got to love the quotes from the people who saw it.
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flyincanuck
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Re: Emirates 380 de declares an emergency and heads to YOW

Post by flyincanuck »

The worst sequence in the last 12 hours:

CYYZ 012300Z 10022G27KT 2 1/2SM +RA BR OVC004 13/13 A2953 RMK SF8 SLP003
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Eric Janson
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Some background info on operating long haul flights

Post by Eric Janson »

Disclaimer:- I do not fly for Emirates but I operate long haul flights. I'm not commenting on any specifics regarding this flight as I wasn't there. I'm purely providing background information.

Flightplanning long haul flights is quite complex as there are a lot of variables - especially on a long flight.
  • Weather and winds can change significantly over the course of a flight.
  • Stuck at a lower level than the flightplan can rapidly cause you to burn your contingency fuel.
  • Some Airlines use a re-dispatch flightplan reducing contingency fuel still further.
  • Surplus fuel costs fuel to transport (4%/hour is a rough figure. 1000kg extra on a 10hour flight will cause an extra 400kg of fuel to be used. On a 15 hour flight that goes up to 600kg).
  • A lot of times you will be at MTOW - cannot take any extra fuel.
And when you get to your destination.
  • Low altitude manoevering burns as much fuel as in cruise.

A 11 hour long haul flight at my Airline with the A340 costs U$155,000. Fuel is the greatest single item in this figure.

Depending on company fuel policy you have to land at destination with alternate and final reserve fuel (30 mins). If your fuel reaches this figure you need to divert as per the company policy.

If at any time you are going to land with less than final reserve fuel (30 mins) than a Mayday call is mandatory. This is the policy at most Airlines.

On most of my long haul flights a number of holding patterns followed by some low altitude manoevering would put us close to the minimum diversion fuel. If we had to go around we would certainly get to this figure. A subsequent diversion would probably put us below final reseve fuel at the alternate airport.
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YYZSaabGuy
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Re: Emirates 380 de declares an emergency and heads to YOW

Post by YYZSaabGuy »

EJ, thanks for the explanation - I always had a general understanding that tankering fuel was expensive, but the 4%/flight hour rule of thumb was something I hadn't come across before. Also appreciated the outline of diversion policy. Great post.
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teacher
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Re: Emirates 380 de declares an emergency and heads to YOW

Post by teacher »

Just listen to the ATC tapes of the Air France accident in Toronto. ATC tries to issue hold clearances to long haul aircraft and they all say "no thanks we're going to our alternate".
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cgzro
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Re: Emirates 380 de declares an emergency and heads to YOW

Post by cgzro »

I wonder why not Trenton, they have 10,000 ft there and closer than YOW.
Or was it crap there too?
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Chaxterium
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Re: Emirates 380 de declares an emergency and heads to YOW

Post by Chaxterium »

I've often wondered as well why Trenton isn't used as an alternate more often. Is it frowned upon since it's military?
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1000islander
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Re: Emirates 380 de declares an emergency and heads to YOW

Post by 1000islander »

I had heard it was a medical emergency...not sure when the decision was made to divert but the weather in yow was better than yz...I'll bet the crew had not done a non precision approach in a while as the only ils in ow was shut down du construction..ytr probably did not have logistics/customs to handle a380....
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carnie
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Re: Emirates 380 de declares an emergency and heads to YOW

Post by carnie »

Apparently a fuel issue, was in their sector when they declared the MAYDAY- down to 6.2 tons/13668 pounds. Not much juice for those 4 thirsty engines.
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HighT5
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Re: Emirates 380 de declares an emergency and heads to YOW

Post by HighT5 »

1000islander wrote:I'll bet the crew had not done a non precision approach in a while
It's all automated. Doesn't matter if it's ILS, NDB, GNSS. It's pretty much all the same to them.
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station60
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Re: Some background info on operating long haul flights

Post by station60 »

Eric Janson wrote:Disclaimer:- I do not fly for Emirates but I operate long haul flights. I'm not commenting on any specifics regarding this flight as I wasn't there. I'm purely providing background information.

Flightplanning long haul flights is quite complex as there are a lot of variables - especially on a long flight...
Great post... but why is management sending them out with so little fuel that they need to get down to 30 minutes? That's a little crazy, and perhaps it's putting profit ahead of safety.

In the 705 I work at in the past 8 years I have never landed with less than 1hr of fuel, and that's even after going to my alternate.

Just my 2 cents, don't shoot me, I really don't care for the "experts" on here. Thanks.
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Post by Beefitarian »

station60 wrote:
Great post... but why is management sending them out with so little fuel that they need to get down to 30 minutes? That's a little crazy, and perhaps it's putting profit ahead of safety.
Be thankful you don't work for one of the majority of companies that put profits ahead of anything.
I really don't care for the "experts" on here. Thanks.
Awww, come on. Give 'em a hug.
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Crown_n_Coke
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Re: Emirates 380 de declares an emergency and heads to YOW

Post by Crown_n_Coke »

I was behind them on the apprch to YYZ and they reported a wind shear alert which required them to go-around. They then requested clrnce to YOW.
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Post by Beefitarian »

Crown_n_Coke wrote:I was behind them on the apprch to YYZ and they reported a wind shear alert which required them to go-around. They then requested clrnce to YOW.
That starts making things interesting.

How often does it have to be diverted vs. making the destination. Before the extra fuel would be less expensive. I realize the calculations will get complicated because of how much less ends up actually being left after a large amount burns off to carry the actual reserve portion.
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azimuthaviation
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Re: Emirates 380 de declares an emergency and heads to YOW

Post by azimuthaviation »

Fuel in the truck is worth nothing, an expensive lesson learned by emirates. Runway behind you is worthless, a very expensive lesson they had to learn recently in Melbourne, see Emirates flight 407. I don't think I want to be in the Emirates flight that gets the next expensive lesson on why not to get so close to minimums.
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Nark
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Re: Emirates 380 de declares an emergency and heads to YOW

Post by Nark »

HighT5 wrote:
1000islander wrote:I'll bet the crew had not done a non precision approach in a while
It's all automated. Doesn't matter if it's ILS, NDB, GNSS. It's pretty much all the same to them.

They aren't flown the same in a fully automated aircraft. ILS is a non-event, where as a LOC or NDB has a lot of elbows and armpits adjusting the FMS/guidance panel trying to keep the aircraft on profile.

Also, you have to keep in mind that as an airline, you can't land at any ol' airport. It must be an approved airport meeting whatever requirements they see fit (generally CFR availability). While I don't fly for Emirates, I'm willing to bet Trenton, albeit a long runway, isn't on said list.
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old_man
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Re: Emirates 380 de declares an emergency and heads to YOW

Post by old_man »

azimuthaviation wrote:Fuel in the truck is worth nothing,
Not to be a smart ass but it is actually worth the cost of the fuel that would have been burned to tanker in half way around the globe.
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