T33 Accident at Hamilton

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fleet16b
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T33 Accident at Hamilton

#1 Post by fleet16b » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:06 am

On Friday evening , a T33 from the Jet Aircraft Museum in London Ontario, misjudged it's approach and landed approx 900 ft short of the runway threshold.
Port gear was sheared off on impact and the aircraft became airborne for a very short period before impacting and running off the side of the runway and into soft ground. I am told by the people that semoved her from the scene that the stb gear did not shear but was inbedded into the ground almost its whole length.
No injuries to the pilot but the aircraft is most likely beyond repairing at any reasonable expense.

Present at the show was a very experienced former T33 Pilot that just happened to be one of the Test pilots that did the T33 acceptance testing for the RCAF.
I wont publically quote him but he had some really interesting insight into that type , the incident and his theory as to what most likely happened.

All together an unfortunate incident and a real blow to the J. A. M.
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Last edited by fleet16b on Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:04 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: T33 Accident at Hamilton

#2 Post by Colonel Sanders » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:33 pm

Oh my god. You don't need to be a T-33 test pilot
to know what happened. Any jet instructor pilot has
a pretty good idea.

I'm really sorry to hear about this. I hate it when good
airplanes are trashed.
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Re: T33 Accident at Hamilton

#3 Post by sidestick stirrer » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:13 pm

The T-bird is indeed a sad sight and every spectator at the Airshow were treated to a close driveby as they were shuttled back to the parking area via a fleet of school buses.
It is listing slightly to the left side where there is no landing gear.
Both ailerons appear to have been removed, there is damage to the outer edge of the left-side horizontal stabilizer/elevator tip and the left tip tank is lying beside the wingtip.
Knowing how tough these old birds are, I'm not sure that it will be declared a write off just yet.
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Re: T33 Accident at Hamilton

#4 Post by whistlerboy02 » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:37 pm

900 feet short on a 10,000ft runway?
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Re: T33 Accident at Hamilton

#5 Post by FlyGy » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:38 pm

Just wondering, was it a T33 or a CT-133?
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Re: T33 Accident at Hamilton

#6 Post by fleet16b » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:18 pm

whistlerboy02 wrote:900 feet short on a 10,000ft runway?
From the very high time T-33 pilot I was with I learned that
on approach the aircraft is at 20 % power .
If you have to select more power or full power , these turbines take a bit of time to spool up again,
so if the approach / decent rate is not judge properly you may not be able to check the rapid decent fast enough. Hence you don't make the runway. Apparently a typical mistake if you are low time pilot on this type or have not flown one in a long time.
There are others here with Jet time that can explain this better I am sure
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Re: T33 Accident at Hamilton

#7 Post by RatherBeFlying » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:30 pm

A lot of early jets ended up short of the runway because of long spool up times, including early airliners.
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Re: T33 Accident at Hamilton

#8 Post by Colonel Sanders » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:47 pm

When I issue type ratings for the L39, I tell the
pilot that there are 3 things they need to learn
to do (for normal ops)

1) learn to start it
2) learn to taxi it
3) learn to control the airspeed on final

Typical jet newbie mistake: turns final, sees
the airspeed too high. Cuts off WAY too much
throttle, but he doesn't know he's made a terrible
mistake. Airspeed comes down. Everything looks
good. Airspeed continues to come down, and the
turbine is spooled down. Pilot notices slow airspeed,
and applies too much throttle, too late, and into
the ground short of the threshold you go.

IIRC in addition the P-80/T-33 nene-10 FCU is not
very sophisticated which can cause other problems
but that's another story.

I know that there are a lot of people here on AvCan
that think they're a lot better pilot than I am, but
I fly the L39 the same way I fly the C421 - with an
absolute minimum of throttle jockeying.

In the 421, it's 21 inches of MP on downwind, and
I gradually increase the drag with the gear and flaps.
A good approach will not have me touching the
throttles until they are pulled back for touchdown.

Same in the L39 - set the N1 to 83% if I am light,
85% if I am heavy with gas on downwind. Lower
the gear and flap, and if I fly it right, I don't need
to touch the throttles until I'm over the numbers.

Again, there are a lot of people here who think
they're much better pilots than I am, so why don't
we go with their way of flying piston and jet aircraft.
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Re: T33 Accident at Hamilton

#9 Post by linecrew » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:15 pm

FlyGy wrote:Just wondering, was it a T33 or a CT-133?
CT-133; former 133346, currently C-FUPM
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Re: T33 Accident at Hamilton

#10 Post by Ktmboy » Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:17 am

The true story:

On June 15th 2012 the Jet Aircraft Museums T-33 Silver Star serial #133346 was involved in an incident during landing at the Hamilton International Airport. Upon arriving at the airport the T-33 crew preformed a closed landing pattern and due to circumstances still under investigation, a failure of its left side main landing gear occurred. Due to the failure of the left hand gear the aircraft then proceeded to slide off to the left of the runway and came to rest in the grass. The planes crew was able to evacuate and then secure the aircraft. Both crew members where unharmed and walked away from the aircraft with out a scratch. The aircraft has now been recovered to a secure site with the assistance of the airport and is now currently under going evaluation by maintenance personnel.
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Re: T33 Accident at Hamilton

#11 Post by fleet16b » Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:45 pm

Ktmboy wrote:The true story:

On June 15th 2012 the Jet Aircraft Museums T-33 Silver Star serial #133346 was involved in an incident during landing at the Hamilton International Airport. Upon arriving at the airport the T-33 crew preformed a closed landing pattern and due to circumstances still under investigation, a failure of its left side main landing gear occurred. Due to the failure of the left hand gear the aircraft then proceeded to slide off to the left of the runway and came to rest in the grass. The planes crew was able to evacuate and then secure the aircraft. Both crew members where unharmed and walked away from the aircraft with out a scratch. The aircraft has now been recovered to a secure site with the assistance of the airport and is now currently under going evaluation by maintenance personnel.
y
You are quoting from an "official" statement put out by the JAM

After speaking with Transport Canada investigation and the salvage crew, the above statement seems misleading.

From T/C and the salvage people I spoke with:
-Pilot misjudged the rate of decent and undershot the runway by approx 600 - 100 ft ( varying opinions)
- due to slow spool up of engine type, pilot was unable to check the decent rate and landed way short.
- left gear was located 200 yds short of the runway due to being sheared off by landing in soft rough surface
- right gear was still on the a/c but imbedded into the soft ground of runway

It will all come out in the official report once the investigation is complete.
The way it looks is that JAM is trying to save face on what happened.
If what I am told is true, JAM is going to look very foolish for issuing a false statement
They should just own up to what really happened.
Hey we all make mistakes sometimes
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Last edited by fleet16b on Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: T33 Accident at Hamilton

#12 Post by linecrew » Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:39 am

From CADORS 2012O1588
Narrative:

The privately-operated Jet Aircraft Museum Canadair T-33 Mk.3 aircraft (C-FUPM) was on a VFR flight from Kitchener/Waterloo Regional Airport (CYKF) to Hamilton (JCMIA) (CYHM). NAV CANADA staff at Hamilton Tower reported that the aircraft touched down quite hard just short of runway 06 and then veered to the left into the grass, ending up about 300 feet off the side of the runway. After landing, the pilot indicated a landing gear problem. There were no injuries. Ops. impact – none. A Transport Canada Inspector advised that the landing gear was sheared off.

UPDATE Supplemental information received from T.S.B. Daily Notification [#A12O0084]: The Jet Aircraft Museum Canadair CT-133 (T-33) aircraft (C-FUPM) was on a positioning flight from Kitchener to Hamilton when the aircraft landed short of runway 06. The aircraft touched down in the grass short of the runway and the left main landing gear broke off, damaging the left wing, flaps, stabilizer and elevator. The aircraft skidded approximately 700 meters down the runway and exited off the left side of runway 06 into the infield and came to rest approximately 180 meters from the edge of the runway. The pilot opened the canopy normally and both the pilot and passenger exited the aircraft. There were no injuries.
Again, thankfully nobody was injured.
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Re: T33 Accident at Hamilton

#13 Post by fleet16b » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:18 am

linecrew wrote:From CADORS 2012O1588
Narrative:

The privately-operated Jet Aircraft Museum Canadair T-33 Mk.3 aircraft (C-FUPM) was on a VFR flight from Kitchener/Waterloo Regional Airport (CYKF) to Hamilton (JCMIA) (CYHM). NAV CANADA staff at Hamilton Tower reported that the aircraft touched down quite hard just short of runway 06 and then veered to the left into the grass, ending up about 300 feet off the side of the runway. After landing, the pilot indicated a landing gear problem. There were no injuries. Ops. impact – none. A Transport Canada Inspector advised that the landing gear was sheared off.

UPDATE Supplemental information received from T.S.B. Daily Notification [#A12O0084]: The Jet Aircraft Museum Canadair CT-133 (T-33) aircraft (C-FUPM) was on a positioning flight from Kitchener to Hamilton when the aircraft landed short of runway 06. The aircraft touched down in the grass short of the runway and the left main landing gear broke off, damaging the left wing, flaps, stabilizer and elevator. The aircraft skidded approximately 700 meters down the runway and exited off the left side of runway 06 into the infield and came to rest approximately 180 meters from the edge of the runway. The pilot opened the canopy normally and both the pilot and passenger exited the aircraft. There were no injuries.
Again, thankfully nobody was injured.
Absolutely!!! thats the most important thing.

Too bad about the aircraft .
With a landing gear sheared off , this becomes a very very expensive repair.
That and all the other damage will most likely result in a write off situation.
Ofcourse anything is possible to rebuild if you have enough bucks but is it logical to repair or try to just locate another flying aircraft and reduce the damaged one to spares.
Most of these small groups work on a very small budget and an accident like this can be hard to recover from.
I wish JAM well and hope they get thru this incident.
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Re: T33 Accident at Hamilton

#14 Post by pelmet » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:47 am

Is it true that another of their aircraft was damaged recently(perhaps non-operationally)?
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Re: T33 Accident at Hamilton

#15 Post by cgzro » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:11 pm

Something I observed while carrying a helmet cam for every acro flight for a few years was that my recollection of what I did vs what the camera showed were sometimes different.
One time I completely skipped a manoeuvre without realizing it wierd.
So im sure its possible after an incident like this for a pilot to be certain things happened quite differently than observers. Stress is a bitch.
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Re: T33 Accident at Hamilton

#16 Post by Colonel Sanders » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:18 pm

CADORS 2012O1588

NAV CANADA staff at Hamilton Tower reported that the aircraft touched down quite hard just short of runway 06
Calling that a "landing gear failure" is a bit confusing. I don't know of many aircraft with landing gear that is designed to withstand touching down "quite hard" short of the runway.

I'm glad no one was hurt. I'm sure it was a pretty rough ride, with possibly structural fuselage and/or wing damage.
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An older accident revisited (5 years ago Hamilton)

#17 Post by pdw » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:22 pm

This is only 5 years ago ... seems like longer ..
an absolute minimum of throttle jockeying
OK so that was NOT implying there is 'no throttle jockeying' ever. IMO here's an example where it may be possible to show why even an "absolute minimum" of "throttle" reduction could be instead more like a maximum "jockeying" move.

This is a 06 landing approach at YHM (where Lake Ontario is straight ahead), and after some wx-records checking, this event has in it what appears to be a shot of Increased Performance Shear (IPS) oncoming over Hamilton heights out of NE from over Lake Ontario (cold-water/calmer-air at lake surface, but that's not the faster/warmer air moving well-above that cooled/slower layer ).

It's understandable to have cut power on noticing airspeed too high ... approaching up there at "Hamilton Mountain"; yet an IPS is very often unidentified to a pilot .. at first (esp when introducing itself very smoothly .. little turbulence). So unlike as per usual expectation or experience, the ample energy realized/counted-on (a higher IAS) to easily achieve ' glide to the threshold ' during that period of IP .. or 'false energy estimate ', now gets bleeding away again as the IP-layer is abruptly left behind (above) in descending out-of-it so-quick into the slower/colder surface-air .. approximately mid final.

The enticing/false perception would be this:
As "WAY" too much airspeed is building so close to the landing spot (~ 800' ahead) ..thinking (a no-brainer) .. must reduce power NOW or else might have to overshoot ... that's right where the T33 gets left immediately SLOW and latent for spoolup .. yes .. in exit-ing that deceptive and short-lived IP (which is essentially Decreased-Performance(DP)/IAS-bleed right there ..and then instant mushrooming drag) in addition to the 'slower spoolup' engine (suggested in a previous post above).
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Re: T33 Accident at Hamilton

#18 Post by Illya Kuryakin » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:21 pm

pdw......get back into rehab dude.
Illya
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