Nanchang CJ-6A gear-up landing at Oliver Airport BC [video]
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Re: Nanchang CJ-6A gear-up landing at Oliver Airport BC [vid
I was not there so I can't comment on whether it was intentional or not. However the Nanchang has no gear warning horn/light or any ground anti-retraction system, except for a little slider on the gear handle assembly. The result is this airplane seems to have more than its fair share of inadvertant gear ups or gear selected up on the ground, accidents.
All that being said, good checklist discipline will eliminate the possibility of an inadvertent gear up landing.......
All that being said, good checklist discipline will eliminate the possibility of an inadvertent gear up landing.......
Re: Nanchang CJ-6A gear-up landing at Oliver Airport BC [vid
Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this.. but I was under the impression (from watching them preflight nanchangs and the yaks at ZBB many moons ago) that they have pneumatics for the gear etc? Perhaps a failure of a pump or line? Hence the nose gear being slightly out of the well like BeaverBob mentioned?
Also, hard to chastise the poor fellow for this without knowing if it was a failure or not. If it was, then it was a wise choice to go to oliver and not cause havoc in penticton and a runway closure at a busier airport. Also, the firehall is only about 3 minutes away! Probably take just as long to roll the trucks at pen
Also, hard to chastise the poor fellow for this without knowing if it was a failure or not. If it was, then it was a wise choice to go to oliver and not cause havoc in penticton and a runway closure at a busier airport. Also, the firehall is only about 3 minutes away! Probably take just as long to roll the trucks at pen
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Re: Nanchang CJ-6A gear-up landing at Oliver Airport BC [vid
The nose landing gear is almost totally exposed when in the full up position. The landing gear in this airplane was in the normal up position when it hit the runway. The gear, as well as the flaps,brakes, and starter, are all pneumatic. However the gear has a separate emergency air bottle which has its own lines which go straight from the bottle to the gear actuator bypassing all the normal main air system lines/selectors/check valves etc etc. However the gear needs air pressure to lock down so the first thing you do if you think you have a problem with the air system is put the gear down.Rowdy wrote:Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this.. but I was under the impression (from watching them preflight nanchangs and the yaks at ZBB many moons ago) that they have pneumatics for the gear etc? Perhaps a failure of a pump or line? Hence the nose gear being slightly out of the well like BeaverBob mentioned?
:
Looking at the video again, it is hard not to conclude that the guy just plain forgot the gear. I sure hope I am wrong........
Re: Nanchang CJ-6A gear-up landing at Oliver Airport BC [vid
Funny, I did just that at Port Alberni last year.... sitting around with a few folks with a glider and tow plane in the air, and a Glasair that looked like he was doing a low and over....until the last minute, with flaps down and a wee bit slow for a low and over.... Grabbed a handheld and repeated "LANDING GEAR, LANDING GEAR, LANDING GEAR"..... Looked like he came within of the runway inches on his prop and the trailing edge of his flaps before going around.... Was interesting. He didn't come back to land.AirFrame wrote: What surprises me is the apparent number of people standing near the runway watching/filming, and yet nobody has a handheld to shout "gear!" on it.
Re: Nanchang CJ-6A gear-up landing at Oliver Airport BC [vid
I tend to agreeiflyforpie wrote:The prop hit the ground running. Two reasons... either it was shut down and windmilling, or it hit with power. You can hear the blades hitting the pavement, which has a bit of lag because of the speed of sound... and you can see the bent tips on all three blades. Watch it in 1080p and it is pretty clear.
Nanchang gear is partially exposed when retracted.
I downloaded and watched the video at high resolution a number of times (including frame by frame) and my take is the engine was running when the prop hit. While the image has motion blur, there appears to be debris come off the runway each time a blade hit and all three blades end up curled. The approach seems fast to me and he seems to land long. This makes me think he was doing a normal landing and was expecting the A/C to slow down sooner/faster with flaps AND gear extended. Or this could all be BS, only the pilot (and passenger) know for sure.
As Beef said, thankfully no one was hurt and it looks as if the A/C can be repaired (although depending on the age, they are not worth much and may get written off).
Re: Nanchang CJ-6A gear-up landing at Oliver Airport BC [vid
Before posting my previous comments I was intent on the moment of impact and time of prop rotation. I never did view the last few seconds. The blades most obviously contacted the ground under power. Take a look at the very last few frames.
Time for old Bob to get new glasses.
Bob
Time for old Bob to get new glasses.
Bob
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Re: Nanchang CJ-6A gear-up landing at Oliver Airport BC [vid
Sounded like he leaned it to cut off to me, slight rise in RPM just before he puts it on the ground. I don't know, just a guess really. Hold on I'll call him...
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Re: Nanchang CJ-6A gear-up landing at Oliver Airport BC [vid
Okay, Boys and Girls, lets ALL say; "PILOT ERROR "
Re: Nanchang CJ-6A gear-up landing at Oliver Airport BC [vid
I am well familiar with Oliver. He was way to fast for a landing. In my opinion that was a low pass and something happened on power up. The ground loop at the end was done to keep from ramping down onto the street at the end of 36. I think that when the engine calved he put it down on purpose. JMHO.
Re: Nanchang CJ-6A gear-up landing at Oliver Airport BC [vid
'Can't do it.lets ALL say; "PILOT ERROR "
I could try for "Pilot error?", but even that is a stretch for me right now.
IF, this was a landing of an aircraft (whose type I know nothing of) with gear which refused to extend, I'm inclined to say "Looked good to me!". I note that when I was being talked through a possible gear up in a three blade props plane, I was told to not attempt to stop the engine before touchdown, let it windmill. That could be what I saw in the video....
But I don't know what the reason for the slide on the flap, so I have no meaningful opinion. Like many, my curiosity has raised my interest, but really, no matter what the outcome or facts, it really does not affect my life or my flying, so it's just a "for information" no matter what the facts turn out to be....
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Re: Nanchang CJ-6A gear-up landing at Oliver Airport BC [vid
I know of another 'chang that was landed gear up a
couple years ago. Was not economical to repair - it
was junked, and another used one was purchased to
replace it. Was nicer, actually.
couple years ago. Was not economical to repair - it
was junked, and another used one was purchased to
replace it. Was nicer, actually.
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Re: Nanchang CJ-6A gear-up landing at Oliver Airport BC [vid
You don't do a low and over with flaps down usually.
We had a guy speak at the Penticton Flying Club years ago who crashed his Nanchang in the hills to the east of Oliver (he was back seat and not paying attention to the front seater). At the time, you could not get hull-insurance for warbirds... or if you could, it was ridiculously expensive, like pay for your airplane every two years... so he had to walk away from it.Colonel Sanders wrote:I know of another 'chang that was landed gear up a
couple years ago. Was not economical to repair - it
was junked, and another used one was purchased to
replace it. Was nicer, actually.
Re: Nanchang CJ-6A gear-up landing at Oliver Airport BC [vid
Sure. Flaps on a low pass. Funny how nobody is willing to call a FU, a FU?MUSKEG wrote:I am well familiar with Oliver. He was way to fast for a landing. In my opinion that was a low pass and something happened on power up. The ground loop at the end was done to keep from ramping down onto the street at the end of 36. I think that when the engine calved he put it down on purpose. JMHO.
Then to say he ground looped it at the end on purpose. Sure. Want to buy a bridge?
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Re: Nanchang CJ-6A gear-up landing at Oliver Airport BC [vid
Why isn't there a CADORS report for this incident?
Re: Nanchang CJ-6A gear-up landing at Oliver Airport BC [vid
I realize I can be a wee bit of an ass towards pilots who don't put the gear down, and I apologize for that on some level. I've been called on it by a mod or two in the past, but I've always prided myself in doing the best job I can, and I don't take kindly to those who don't feel the same way. Now we have one on video, and the excuses continue. This guy did NOT plan this. There would have been equipment standing by. He did not pull of a ground loop on purpose. He would have had no rudder response to do so. He did not have a low and over go south on him. He had flaps down. WHY is it so hard to just admit he pooched it? With lots of witnesses, and on camera! As a group, we just have to start giving a shit!
Re: Nanchang CJ-6A gear-up landing at Oliver Airport BC [vid
Exactly what I saw after a few views.slowstream wrote:My perspective from the video was that he shut the engine down just before touchdown which from a very limited point of assessment leads one to believe that it was indeed intentional.
If indeed that was the situation, it was well done and executed
Re: Nanchang CJ-6A gear-up landing at Oliver Airport BC [vid
Well Doc if you are right it certainly won't be the first time I'm wrong. Next time I stop in there I'll snoop around and talk to the oldtimers on the field there. Still my opinion that the ground loop was intentional because there's a steep drop off at that end and trust me he came to a stop at the end. Ya I saw the flaps down as well. What is curious is the sudden drop of the last couple of feet once the engine stops. Looks intentional to me.
Re: Nanchang CJ-6A gear-up landing at Oliver Airport BC [vid
My opinion (which really, in the big scheme of things, is valueless!) remains that it was unintentional, BUT if it was intentional then I would suggest it wasn't the best emergency landing.
- The runway is 3200 feet, he touched down with about 1300 left to go at what appears to me to be higher than normal landing speed (with full flaps it stalls at 59 Kts). Why not do a go round and try again?
- Would you not call a PAN or MAYDAY for this? If so, why were the people on the ground unaware of the emergency?
- The CJ-6A emergency procedures call for the canopies to be open during an emergency landing. They weren't.
It does however call for full flaps and to kill the mags prior to touchdown so ...
- The runway is 3200 feet, he touched down with about 1300 left to go at what appears to me to be higher than normal landing speed (with full flaps it stalls at 59 Kts). Why not do a go round and try again?
- Would you not call a PAN or MAYDAY for this? If so, why were the people on the ground unaware of the emergency?
- The CJ-6A emergency procedures call for the canopies to be open during an emergency landing. They weren't.
It does however call for full flaps and to kill the mags prior to touchdown so ...
LANDING GEAR EXTENSION FAILURE
Landing Gear Handles ........................Check Fwd/Aft
Main Air Valve.....................................Check Open
Main Air Pressure ...............................Check
IF MAIN AIR PRESSURE IS LOW:
Continue and Monitor Pressure (fuel permitting). If Air
Pressure remains low, or decreases, refer to Main Air
Pressure Low checklist (p A-5).
IF MAIN AIR PRESSURE INCREASES TO NORMAL:
Landing Gear Handle..........................Down
Landing Gear Indications ....................Check 3 Green/Poles
IF GEAR STILL FAILS TO EXTEND:
Landing Gear Handles ........................Check Fwd/Aft
Landing Gear Handle..........................Recycle
Consider reducing airspeed, yawing the aircraft or using
G-loads to assist in gear extension.
IF GEAR STILL FAILS TO EXTEND:
Main Air Valve.....................................Close
Landing Gear Handle..........................Neutral
Emergency Air Valve ..........................Open
Landing Gear Indications ....................Check 3 Green/Poles
Landing Gear Handle..........................Down
IF GEAR EXTENDS:
Monitor Emergency Air System Pressure. Land as soon
as conditions permit.
IF GEAR FAILS TO EXTEND AFTER ALL EFFORTS:
Plan Normal Approach (with Flap Extended)
Seat Belt and Harness ........................Tight
Canopy................................................Open
Prior To Touchdown:
Emergency Fuel Shutoff .....................Close
Magnetos ............................................Off (0)
Battery and Generator Switches .........Off
end of procedure