Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

[flyinthebug]

So using stolen passports is less of a risk of being stopped than getting in an aircraft when you are on so called watch list? Does Malaysia even have a terrorist watch list?

Updates (ATC suggesting the plane may have turned back towards Kuala Lumpur)...and an answer to your question about watchlists and how they got through security.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/09/world/asi ... index.html

[azimuthaviation]

Additionally, no inquiry was made by Malaysia Airlines to determine if any passengers on the flight were traveling on stolen passports, he said. Many airlines do not check the database, he said.

But just try to get on board with a tube of toothpaste

[cncpc]

Some good points made in this Guardian article...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -black-box

[ahramin]

I don't think that article makes any good points at all.

There is a frenzy of social media speculation. Who cares? Is this something we want to spend money preventing?

It takes a long time to know what happened. While I'm sure this is frustrating to reporters who just want to bang out something, anything, without having to research anything about it and without having to follow up on what they wrote, again who cares? An investigation does take a long time, and having a small sample of the fdr data instantly is not going to change that. We're still going to need the fdr and cvr data in it's entirety, so what would a small snapshot do other than fuel the speculation that we apparently want to prevent?

Should oceanic aircraft have SPOT trackers? In the past I would have said no, but in view of the last couple oceanic crashes maybe it should be mandated for aircraft without ADS-C.

[cncpc]

There's a lot of good stuff in that article, and a good canvassing of why it should and maybe can't be done.

If this was a hijacking or some other interference in the cockpit, and it may be linked to future events, then your theory of waiting till the black boxes being found isn't a great one.

[cncpc]

It was always a question how an Asian could use an Italian or Austrian passport...

This from the Guardian now...quoting some bloke from Malaysia

Malaysia’s home minister Ahmad Zahid Hamidi has also slammed immigration officials over border control checks.

“I am still perturbed. Can’t these immigration officials think? Italian and Austrian but with Asian faces,” he told state news agency Bernama in comments that appear to have been made late on Sunday.

“We will conduct an internal probe, particularly on the officers, who were on duty at the KLIA Immigration counter during flight MH370.”

“I am still puzzled how come (immigration officers) cannot think, an Italian and Austrian (passengers) but with Asian facial features,” he told reporters.

[bmc]

Are you people serious? Do all Asians have Asian passports? Are there any Canadians that look Asian? Have any of you been to Vancouver?

I worked with a Swedish lady who was born South Korean and adopted by a Swedish family. Korean face, Swedish accent.

I can't believe, in this day and age, that an Asian face could not have an Italian passport. You might want to get and travel a bit. It's enlightening.

[ahramin]

There are almost 200 000 ethnic Chinese people living in Italy.

But yes, I suppose if your idea of an African is this:

and an italian is this:

then it would make sense to detain all Italians who look like this:

[bmc]

Abraham, in for the win.

[complexintentions]

While I appreciate the need for some people to leap to the ramparts the moment they even sense that maybe someone is intimating something that could be remotely construed as "racist", I interrupt the PC circle-jerk to point out that this is the Italian whose passport was stolen:



So, if the person presenting this passport at MH370 did indeed have an Asian face, then I do submit that it is a perfectly valid question as to why he was allowed to pass. It's sorta a basic principle of ID checks, the pretty picture is supposed to resemble the person holding it. Which is pretty much what the news article stated.

Malaysia’s home minister Ahmad Zahid Hamidi has also slammed immigration officials over border control checks.

“I am still perturbed. Can’t these immigration officials think? Italian and Austrian but with Asian faces,” he told state news agency Bernama in comments that appear to have been made late on Sunday.

But any old excuse to cry "racist", right? (If anything your stereotypes were more offensive, btw.)

Good thing there weren't any women involved too or you guys would've had a meltdown!

[Gino Under]

Criminals travel all the time with false documents, including passports.
My interest is in the wing tip damage this aircraft suffered earlier in the lifetime of the airframe.
Cycle fatigue could lead to structural failure. If so, the wing may have separated from the fuselage, The aircraft might have then banked left or right rather than 'turned back'.

Space debris has been sighted by aircraft in flight in the past travelling at supersonic speed. There's a one-to-the-whatever millionth chance that space debris took this aircraft out.

Terrorism? Maybe. But Malaysia is an Islamic nation and it seems unlikely to me that a fellow muslim would target them especially on such a route over water. What a tragic event for such a gentle nation?

Keep speculating though. It's nothing more than human curiosity.

May god rest their souls and give insight to those seeking answers.

Gino Under

[boeingboy]

If so, the wing may have separated from the fuselage,

Your kidding .....right?

[grimey]

So, if the person presenting this passport at MH370 did indeed have an Asian face, then I do submit that it is a perfectly valid question as to why he was allowed to pass. It's sorta a basic principle of ID checks, the pretty picture is supposed to resemble the person holding it. Which is pretty much what the news article stated.

I'm absolutely certain that no one in all of history has ever doctored a passport or other form of ID.

[GGCC]

From the Guardian

" Then searches for missing planes won't have to resemble the hunt for Amelia Earhart."

I was just thinking this could be the Amelia Earhart story for this century....

[bizjets101]

Just a comment regarding the stolen passports.

Thailand is a well known area of the world to buy stolen passports - you supply your own photo, and whatever birthdate, birthplace, and name you want. They take one page out, and replace it with your own photo and whatever info you provided.

So whoever boarded the plane had a real passport, with false info but correct photo. It's very common.

Incidentally Interpol has a list of over 40 million stolen/lost passports, along with the knowledge that last year alone, Interpol states that over 1 billion international passengers last year boarded their flight without confirmation the passport was valid.

An Air India crash, 10 passengers on board had false passports (none were involved in the crash).

[complexintentions]

grimey,

Congrats on discovering the use of sarcasm, something I can appreciate.

I'm quite aware of document fraud, I do live in one of the hubs of it and in fact have looked into what it would take (just out of curiosity of course, not in case things went sideways here or anything!). And guess what, it's not quite like the movies and not quite as simple a substituting a page. Trying to alter a EU biometric passport like an Italian one would either be a. easily caught by any credible border control even without running it against the stolen database (the biometrics wouldn't match even if somehow went undetected that the picture wasn't original) or b. requiring a level of sophistication usually limited to the likes of hostile government and serious terrorist organizations. Not so much common people smugglers. And while passport fraud certainly continues, it's hardly the same environment as it was in the 70's during the Air India crash. Not for western passports at least, which the two stolen ones were. There are a slew of technologies employed in a modern passport that weren't around back then. Something to do with September 11, 2001 I think.

So either it was a. and the Home Minister's comments were quite appropriate (passport confirmation wasn't made) and not racist. Or b. and support the theory of terrorist attack.

Maybe people should pick their pet theory and stick with it. lol

[godsrcrazy]

Now back to the Topic of what happened and were is this plane. It is hard to believe that they have not found some kind of a debris field. Even if this thing came apart in flight there has to be debris. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447 Even though the Air France aircraft system sent messages and they had a good ice were to start looking there was a debris field and its believed it came apart in mid air. 1998 Swiss air crashed into Peggy's Cove and there was miles of Debris. American airlines flight blew up in mid air outside New York in 2001 there was miles of Debris Field. The space shuttle Colombia and Challenger blew up and there was miles of Debris over Texas and in the Atlatic. They have a last known location so if this thing came apart in mid air or hit the water there should be a debris field.

[bizjets101]

Took ten days to locate the Adam Air B737 off Indonesia in 2007.

From AvHerald;

Hong Kong's Air Traffic Control Center reported on Mar 10th 2014 around 17:30L (09:30Z) that an airliner enroute on airway L642 reported via HF radio that they saw a large field of debris at position N9.72 E107.42 about 80nm southeast of Ho Chi Minh City, about 50nm off the south-eastern coast of Vietnam in the South China Sea and about 281nm northeast of the last known radar position. Ships have been dispatched to the reported debris field.

photo; https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BiX-lFvCQAAxEFu.jpg

[sstaurus]

Probably a dumb question, but.. Since it seems odd debris could be so far from where it was last seen on radar...

If the transponder stopped working, obviously it can't be seen on secondary radar, but is no one using any primary radar that would be able to show some evidence?

[Gino Under]

boeingboy

Kidding? No I'm not kidding.
Try doing some research before you stick YOUR neck out.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeroma ... r_02_10/3/
or this;
http://www.southampton.ac.uk/~jps7/Airc ... ftfail.pdf

Don't assume because it's a Boeing that no one's ever lost a Boeing due to structural fatigue.
How about that Aloha Airlines flight back in April 1988? Or post-Aloha, that other fatigue-related jet accident--the Sioux City DC-10? The good news is, in both these accidents, there were survivors. Their tale was told immediately as to what happened. MH370's tale has yet to be told.

This Malaysian aircraft's wing tip repair was carried out by whom?
Boeing?
Malaysian?
Another MRO?
Any variance in completion of the work or the work quality itself? Simply saying no or not possible doesn't cut it and one way or the other, can't be verified without investigation.
Any creeping cracks or fatigue signs after the wingtip repair could have lead to a catastrophic failure of wing components? Especially with the flexing and bending of the 777 wing over time.
Actually, I don't know the cause of this tragedy, AND until the wreckage is found NOBODY will know.

So no. I'm not kidding. Just speculating.

Gino