Cirrus CAPS deployed - aircraft had crossed Pacific in Feb14

[burhead1]

The SR22 is not approved for spins and has not been tested or certified for spin recovery characteristics. The only approved and demonstrated method of spin recovery is activation of the Cirrus Airframe Parachute System. Because of this, if the aircraft departs controlled flight, the CAPS must be deployed.

[AuxBatOn]

burhead1,

You are at 9000' AGL, you enter a Spin in a SR22. Do you pull the chute immediately or do you try some other spin recovery method before calling it a day?

[burhead1]

POH says pull the chute. If you chose to try to recover, what alt do you give up at?

[AuxBatOn]

POH says pull the chute. If you chose to try to recover, what alt do you give up at?

What altitude is the chute rated to?

[burhead1]

POH says pull the chute. If you chose to try to recover, what alt do you give up at?

What altitude is the chute rated to?

No idea, What speed is it rated to? what happens when your now in a spiral dive and going too fast for the chute? So if you rent you pull the chute and if you own you try to recover?

[AuxBatOn]

I'd try to recover, even just for my pilot ego, until an altitude at which it is rated to, plus a little bit.

We have a similar thing in the CF-18 where if you are still out of control past a certain altitude, you eject. Before then, you can try to recover as hard as you want (sts).

[Big Pistons Forever]

POH says pull the chute. If you chose to try to recover, what alt do you give up at?

What altitude is the chute rated to?

With respect to a spin Cirrus says the envelope is not less than 1600 feet and not more than 135 kts. The lowest recorded actual save is 400 feet AGL and the fastest is 187 kts.

GA spins virtually never happen at 9000 feet they happen close to the ground while the aircraft is maneuvering. In this scenario the CAP's is a life saver just like the ejection seat in a CF 18.

[iflyforpie]

I'd think that even a chute that is pulled too low would certainly mitigate the effects of the crash.

[trampbike]

The SR22 is not approved for spins and has not been tested or certified for spin recovery characteristics.

It's been tested and did not meet the FAR requirements for a Normal category aircraft.

[Illya Kuryakin]

I'm with AuxBatOn, just because an aircraft isn't approved for spins, doesn't mean you can't get out of one. If you're enough of a bone head to get into a spin at 9000 agl, you bloody well owe it at least a college try to recover?
Illya

[Illya Kuryakin]

The SR22 is not approved for spins and has not been tested or certified for spin recovery characteristics.

It's been tested and did not meet the FAR requirements for a Normal category aircraft.

I don't imagine a Beech Baron is "approved" for spins either, but I'm willing to bet I could get a Baron out of one.
Illya

[trampbike]

Maybe. Feel free to try. I hope you get test pilot pay.

That wasn't my point anyway. Of course if you have plenty of altitude give it a try.

[bizjets101]

From Rick Beach, Cirrus Owners & Pilots Association

The dislike of the mantra "Pull Early, Pull Often" has been oft repeated. However, the interpretation of the meaning and impact does not require an either/or thought process. It can be both planning outs and pulling early. Many other COPA members take away from this mantra the need to plan differently when you are flying a Cirrus with a parachute recovery system.

Most take "Pull Early" to mean pull before you get too fast or get too low -- when other planned outs or recoveries will not reduce the risk of a crash. It becomes a threshold decision criteria. In military terms, it is their hard-deck altitude below which you will not descend without ejecting, or in our case deploying CAPS.

When faced with a bad situation, there are several issues to consider. I propose these be considered in order because of the consequences of inaction. Note that they all require some awareness of your height above ground, which may be a challenge in the heat of an emergency.

Foremost, do you have control? If not, do you have sufficient altitude and skill to attempt recovery? If you do not have control and unable to recover, then PULL CAPS!

If you do not have control but do have altitude and skill, then attempt recovery, but maintain awareness of your hard-deck altitude above the ground. If not, then PULL CAPS!

If you have control but are below your hard-deck altitude, then execute a forced landing. Sorry, but CAPS needs about 8 seconds and 500-600 feet minimum to fully deploy.

If you have control and sufficient altitude, then what height above ground will be your hard-deck altitude to pull early?

Cirrus recommends 2,000 feet AGL. We know that CAPS has worked down to 386 feet AGL in level flight just above the stall speed. But we also know that way too many Cirrus pilots have deployed CAPS below 200 feet and perished. They didn't pull early enough. They died.

Examples of too-low CAPS deployments with fatalities:



Indianapolis, IN just 4 seconds prior to ground impact during 3-1/2/turn spin;
Waxhaw, NC during stall/spin in base turn;
Deltona, FL just prior to ground impact from 10-turn spin;
Carrollton, TX just prior to ground impact after loss of control;
Melbourne, FL during stall/spin while maneuvering to avoid traffic.
Lanseria, South Africa during apparent low-altitude maneuvering and stall/spin
Poncins, France during apparent go-around stall/spin



If you have control and altitude above your hard-deck altitude, then attempt recovery or diversion or other process to avoid a crash. But when flying a Cirrus, keep in mind your need to remain vigilant about your height above ground to enable the use of CAPS.

The problem we faced was too many fatal accidents in which pilots attempted recovery and did not pull the CAPS handle. The mantra "Pull Early, Pull Often" got Cirrus pilots thinking.

Since then, the situation has changed. Only 1 of the 7 fatal accidents in 2013 were potential candidates for successful use of CAPS, otherwise 6 of 7 were never high enough for CAPS to be effective.

Furthermore, 12 CAPS saves in the past two years involved decisions that avoided fatalities and serious injuries. Of those, 11 credit the threshold decision to pull early as their reason to deploy CAPS. The only other CAPS save involved a midair collision that tore off the empennage.

We're not done yet. We need both good aeronautical decision making and the skills to execute safe flights.



Cheers
Rick

[AirFrame]

An early part of report indicated that it appeared that the pilot had initiated a conventional spin recovery, had stopped the rotation, and the aircraft was pitching up when the it
hit the ground.

Which is reasonable... The report suggests that the recommended decision altitude for the chute is 2000' AGL, and he was at 1600' AGL when he entered the spin. Pulling the handle probably wasn't even on his mind as an option.

The bottom line seems pretty clear to me. The pilot had one last chance to save himself and his passengers. His failure to use the CAP's was the final bad decision he made that day......

Preceded by the bad decision to enter a spin from 1600' in an airplane not certificated for spins.

If a chute could be added to an airframe without a weight penalty, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But adding weight and giving up performance in exchange for questionable piece-of-mind seems like a poor trade-off in my mind.

There have been saves with the chute, but there have been fatalities as well. Safety is not 100% guaranteed. A number have been landed off-airport without the chute as well, without injury to passengers.

[CpnCrunch]

Preceded by the bad decision to enter a spin from 1600' in an airplane not certificated for spins.=

I don't think he intended to do a spin from 1600' in a cirrus. That would be nuts. More likely he was demonstrating a stall to the new owners and it just went wrong. Still dumb to do it at 1600ft, but not quite as outright insane.

[Illya Kuryakin]

The real question is. Why are these pilots spinning in the first place. Take more dual. Learn to fly. I can pretty much guarantee I have more flight time than you, and I've never even been near a spin I didn't plan! Ever. Not even close! Am I a better pilot than these Cirrus drivers? I guess I am. Yup, I is!
Illya

[frozen solid]

Wow. Do Cirrus-es just spin more than normal planes? I don't spend any time around private pilots or general aviation; I guess I have always considered the unintentional spin to be a pretty unlikely scenario. I guess I was wrong. What's usually the culprit here? Is the Cirrus a bit trickier to fly at approach speeds or have less explicit aerodynamic cues as to impending stall than other kinds of GA aircraft? Is it just that difficult to keep VFR-only private pilots out of IMC weather? Do they get disoriented in the clouds and come raining out the bottom of them?

I wouldn't have thought there would be so many people out there accidentally spinning a friendly little private plane!

[Illya Kuryakin]

frozen solid, what I find strange is the disproportionately large number of Cirruses ending up dangling at the end of the para lines. We have stall pin accidents in other types.....but if the 172 had the same relative rate of inadvertent spins, it'd be bloody CARNAGE! Even Beech Bonanzas, the most famous "Doctor killer" in aviation has an absolutely benign reputation by comparison. Perhaps we should start referring to the Cirrus as the "Stienway" of the airways? I've never flown a Cirrus, and I probably never will, but who is cutting these "pilots" loose in them?
Illya

[trampbike]

frozen solid, what I find strange is the disproportionately large number of Cirruses ending up dangling at the end of the para lines.

Given the fact it's one of the only aircraft with a parachute, I find it not strange at all to find that the Cirrus is the aircraft that ends up at the end of para lines the most often...

What's usually the culprit here?

It's a faster aircraft than what many PPL are used to fly.
They might not be used to this in the pattern.
Classic spin scenario:
Turn to final late with a tailwind on base, overshooting the extended rwy centerline.
They don't want to bank more ('cause that'll kill them according to many flight schools), they don't want to go-around either (because it's such a shame you know, because they are busy and want to land...), so they pull and apply inside rudder.

[Illya Kuryakin]

frozen solid, what I find strange is the disproportionately large number of Cirruses ending up dangling at the end of the para lines.

Given the fact it's one of the only aircraft with a parachute, I find it not strange at all to find that the Cirrus is the aircraft that ends up at the end of para lines the most often...

What's usually the culprit here?

It's a faster aircraft than what many PPL are used to fly.
They might not be used to this in the pattern.
Classic spin scenario:
Turn to final late with a tailwind on base, overshooting the extended rwy centerline.
They don't want to bank more ('cause that'll kill them according to many flight schools), they don't want to go-around either (because it's such a shame you know, because they are busy and want to land...), so they pull and apply inside rudder.

So, the REAL culprit here is the FTU and the training pilots receive in the first place? The sad part is...you're very likely correct.
Illya