Gear up in Invermere

[iflyforpie]

Invermere Airport closed UFN because myself, the insurance company, every crane operator in the valley is having turkey dinner. Same Cardinal that landed gear up a few months ago in YBW....

[Big Pistons Forever]

Same Cardinal that landed gear up a few months ago in YBW....

Sigh.........

The number one predictor of your probability of having an accident is the fact that you have already had an accident.....

[Shiny Side Up]

Same Cardinal that landed gear up a few months ago in YBW....

Sigh.........

You ever get the idea that insurance is expensive for all to make up for a few?

[North Shore]

For the *second* time?! Really? Where's Doc when you need him?
Maybe it's time to buy a fixed-gear machine?

[Rookie50]

Not to beat up -- but my question is twofold for these situations - wouldnt the gear warning go off -- and how does one slow down for landing speed using their normal power setting without the gear down? In my 182 it would be so obvious -- just the extra speed at low power.

I though lower my gear before entering the pattern, to slow down to pattern speed.

[iflyforpie]

Not to beat up -- but my question is twofold for these situations - wouldnt the gear warning go off -- and how does one slow down for landing speed using their normal power setting without the gear down? In my 182 it would be so obvious -- just the extra speed at low power.

I though lower my gear before entering the pattern, to slow down to pattern speed.

I don't know about the 182 or the Cardinal.... but there is very little difference between gear up and gear down drag on the 337. With the 337... I prefer to just stuff the nose down clean to descend and then use a simple bank to slow to 20 below gear speed in downwind.

I'm not sure about the warning system... but lots are not useful if you carry too much power on final (or aren't adjusted properly) and many people seem to be oblivious anyways....

[iflyforpie]

[PilotDAR]

I have known 177RGs and 182RGs whose gear warning horn switch was set at too low a throttle setting. I have known pilots who carry power on final. I can imaging the combination of thesel, and a horribly inattentive pilot, who does not confirm the gear position prior to landing, could result in a gear up, but I have no particular knowledge of this event. It is turkey day though....

[DanWEC]

Wow, this will be the third gear up for this aircraft going by cadors. First was a mech problem. Second wasn't.

[Rookie50]

To me -- doing key tasks early means a more relaxed approach and landing, less chance of mistakes. What works for me, anyway.

Only thing I'm doing on final -- and I make mine under a mile at my U/C field - is dropping last bit of flap, managing my approach and doing 3rd gear down check.

Think some --may leave things a tad too late. Greater chance of distraction.

I suppose as long as one has a consistent system that works for them.

[wrenchturner]

I suppose as long as one has a consistent system that works for them.

Appears this guy has one......oh wait

[iflyforpie]

Wow, this will be the third gear up for this aircraft going by cadors. First was a mech problem. Second wasn't.

Yep.... the first gear up on this plane, I dealt with too. Nose gear wouldn't come down because of a mechanical issue.

[Rowdy]

The number one predictor of your probability of having an accident is the fact that you have already had an accident.....

I take issue with that erroneous statement. That is an 'idea' that has come from and been perpetuated by someone whom looks down upon others and has never had an incident or accident themselves. The torment of physical and psychological pain from 'most' accidents generally causes much greater caution and a certainty that said person(s) would never repeat such a thing.

Thats not to say that the inattentive and distracted won't remain that way.. but certainly anyone that has had to deal with the repercussions of an actual accident will be far more cautious and significantly less likely to repeat, than say someone who had not.

Back to the Cardinal sitting on it's belly in Invermere, I'm not sure what to make of it. Previous mechanical failures lead to a previous similar occurrence? Certainly that raises an eyebrow. Who did the fixing the last time in YBW? Why did the gear fail the first time? How was the gear warning system set up?

[iflyforpie]

I can say 100% from primary sources that this was not a mechanical failure....

[Big Pistons Forever]

The number one predictor of your probability of having an accident is the fact that you have already had an accident.....

I take issue with that erroneous statement. That is an 'idea' that has come from and been perpetuated by someone whom looks down upon others and has never had an incident or accident themselves.

I wish

Sadly I have already had an accident. While conducting training for the multi engine rating my student raised the gear instead of the flaps during a touch and go landing result in enough damage to write off the airplane. I was PIC so it was on me.

That doesn't change the fact that pilots who have already had a significant incident/accident are significantly over represented in the accident statistics. Recognizing that and acknowledging the factors that led to the accident are important to not be a 2 (or more) time loser. However that does not seem to be happening.....

[iflyforpie]

The number one predictor of your probability of having an accident is the fact that you have already had an accident.....

I take issue with that erroneous statement. That is an 'idea' that has come from and been perpetuated by someone whom looks down upon others and has never had an incident or accident themselves. The torment of physical and psychological pain from 'most' accidents generally causes much greater caution and a certainty that said person(s) would never repeat such a thing.

I don't think it is erroneous... but it certainly isn't true in all cases. You had a very physically and psychologically traumatic event early in your career that I am 100% sure makes you a much more safe and cautious pilot today.

But lots of these less-than-traumatic accidents do seem to happen more than once for several people... people who aren't physically hurt by an accident and who can shrug off the financial and emotional aspects of it.

I remember hearing a speaker from the TSB years ago at the Penticton Flying Club ask if anyone in the room had had an accident. About half the room put up their hands. He asked if anyone else had had more than one accident... and 90% of the first group put up their hands again.

[DonutHole]

Too bad. That appears to have been a pretty nice looking aircraft.

[pelmet]

To me -- doing key tasks early means a more relaxed approach and landing, less chance of mistakes. What works for me, anyway.

Only thing I'm doing on final -- and I make mine under a mile at my U/C field - is dropping last bit of flap, managing my approach and doing 3rd gear down check.

Think some --may leave things a tad too late. Greater chance of distraction.

I suppose as long as one has a consistent system that works for them.

I worry about landing gear up. The majority of my lightplane flying is fixed gear with the occasional retractable. Within reason, I put the gear down when close to the airport, the first time(if possible) I think about it because it may be the last time I think about it while airborne. So if still several miles back from the circuit and I think about it, down it goes.

On final, I tend to say "gear down, props fine" several times. Some paranoia is a good thing.

[CFR]

Not to beat up -- but my question is twofold for these situations - wouldnt the gear warning go off -- and how does one slow down for landing speed using their normal power setting without the gear down? In my 182 it would be so obvious -- just the extra speed at low power.

I though lower my gear before entering the pattern, to slow down to pattern speed.

"... gear warning go off" ...

Probably but If you're saturated, the brain drops or ignores input to focus on what it perceives to be the immediate needed action(s).

or ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5McECUtM8fw

the gear warning is screaming all the way down.

[Rookie50]

Not to beat up -- but my question is twofold for these situations - wouldnt the gear warning go off -- and how does one slow down for landing speed using their normal power setting without the gear down? In my 182 it would be so obvious -- just the extra speed at low power.

I though lower my gear before entering the pattern, to slow down to pattern speed.

"... gear warning go off" ...

Probably but If you're saturated, the brain drops or ignores input to focus on what it perceives to be the immediate needed action(s).

or ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5McECUtM8fw

the gear warning is screaming all the way down.

That is quite painful to watch. I wonder too if these incidents often occur when an approach is non-standard, like when on a VFR approach in scuzzy VFR when one is not sure if they will be able to land -- then boom there's the airport, compressed pattern, gear gets missed, or a sick pax, ect.