Missing north of Peterborough

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PilotDAR
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Missing north of Peterborough

Post by PilotDAR »

The news says someone in their plane is missing north of Peterborough. They made a distress call, low on fuel.....
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by Tramp »

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howard40
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by howard40 »

What a shame, now folks, 8pm (almost 3 hours after dark) on a kinda cruddy evening, is no time to be running low on fuel , in the haliburton highlands. in a 150.
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by PilotDAR »

Hmmm, planned flight from Buttonville to St Hubert, and fuel was a concern, while they were flying over Algonquin park at night? I think several things had already gone wrong with their flight...
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JungianJugular
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by JungianJugular »

Anyone know the registration?
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gwengler
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by gwengler »

Sounds like VFR into IMC to me.
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clear_blue
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by clear_blue »

I've been told that the aircraft was GJAO, although that's unconfirmed, and I'm not about to speculate what other C150's are based at CYKZ.
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gwengler
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by gwengler »

JungianJugular wrote:Anyone know the registration?
I heard through the grapevine C-GJAO.
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bverwegen
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by bverwegen »

If true it looks like it is registered to FlyBlockTime.

http://flyblocktime.com

RIP to the 2 on board.
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by Tiny Voices »

Listening to this develop on guard last night, I was under the impression that they were on the return flight to Buttonville, lost, and low on fuel. A bit difficult to understand though, as his voice was panicked and English didn't seem to be the pilots native language. Kudos to the AC crew who were doing their best to relay information, and keep the pilot calm, and did indeed seem to succeed in calming the pilot to the point where they were able to gain some pertinent information.
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by CpnCrunch »

I find it strange that anyone can get lost these days when you can put AirNavPro on your iphone or android phone for about $20.

Also odd that Capt. Jean Houde from JRCC Trenton is spouting this BS (unless the Toronto Star is misquoting him, which is entirely possible):

"Regulations stipulate that if a pilot is flying further than 25 nautical miles (50 km) from their departure point, they must file a flight plan with NAV Canada, said Houde."
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by Tramp »

It was C-GJAO. Here's the CADORS (sorry for the long link)

http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/saf-sec-sur/2/c ... d2014O2826
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gwengler
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by gwengler »

CpnCrunch wrote:Also odd that Capt. Jean Houde from JRCC Trenton is spouting this BS (unless the Toronto Star is misquoting him, which is entirely possible):

"Regulations stipulate that if a pilot is flying further than 25 nautical miles (50 km) from their departure point, they must file a flight plan with NAV Canada, said Houde."
CAR 602.73 states that no pilot-in-command shall operate an aircraft in VFR flight unless a VFR flight plan or a VFR flight itinerary has been filed, except where the flight is conducted within 25 NM of the departure aerodrome.
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eeeroger
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by eeeroger »

gwengler wrote:
CpnCrunch wrote:Also odd that Capt. Jean Houde from JRCC Trenton is spouting this BS (unless the Toronto Star is misquoting him, which is entirely possible):

"Regulations stipulate that if a pilot is flying further than 25 nautical miles (50 km) from their departure point, they must file a flight plan with NAV Canada, said Houde."
CAR 602.73 states that no pilot-in-command shall operate an aircraft in VFR flight unless a VFR flight plan or a VFR flight itinerary has been filed, except where the flight is conducted within 25 NM of the departure aerodrome.
Thus making a Flight Itinerary mandatory at the least.
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by CpnCrunch »

gwengler wrote:
CpnCrunch wrote:Also odd that Capt. Jean Houde from JRCC Trenton is spouting this BS (unless the Toronto Star is misquoting him, which is entirely possible):

"Regulations stipulate that if a pilot is flying further than 25 nautical miles (50 km) from their departure point, they must file a flight plan with NAV Canada, said Houde."
CAR 602.73 states that no pilot-in-command shall operate an aircraft in VFR flight unless a VFR flight plan or a VFR flight itinerary has been filed, except where the flight is conducted within 25 NM of the departure aerodrome.
Precisely. You would think JRCC Trenton would know that.
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by PilotDAR »

I've read several different accounts of the route, but I'm getting the idea it was Either Montreal or Ottawa returning to Buttonville. I find the reference to running out of fuel to be noteworthy. Presuming that they filled up before they left, Even Montreal to Haliburton, with wind, is only 2.5 hours, so with four hours of fuel from full, they did a lot of being lost or orbiting somewhere. That is lots of time to put your "plan B" into effect, and head for the populated area. I'm sure that Trenton would rather you be standing on their apron, explaining to the MP's why you had to ask for a PAR approach in there, rather than dispatching SAR to find you. For me, along that route, Trenton = Plan B.

I hope that newer VFR pilots embrace the idea that November night over unpopulated Ontario, in a VFR C 150, is just not a nice place to be for any reason. Either follow the populated areas (follow the 401), or time your flight for daylight hours.
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by Inverted2 »

Not sure about Algonquin Park but I was in YYB yesterday which is just north of there and the weather was pretty nasty with some freezing precip and very low ceilings not to mention a 55 kt wind 2000' agl.
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timel
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by timel »

8 pm in Algonquin Park, it does not sound very much vfr and last night there was light fzra nearby this area. Many things must have gone wrong.
:( sad news RIP.
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by JungianJugular »

A real sad day. It's so unfortunate because this could have been avoided completely.

Thoughts and prayers to the families of the deceased.
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by PilotDAR »

Yes, sad indeed. I certainly flew flights like that in earlier days, night, low equpiied VFR over very unwelcoming territory. I survived it, just luck. I wish we who have survived this type of capability challenging flying could impress on newer pilots that it's just not worth it. There will always be another opportunity to fly, if you say "not right now" this time.
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by Rookie50 »

PilotDAR wrote:Yes, sad indeed. I certainly flew flights like that in earlier days, night, low equpiied VFR over very unwelcoming territory. I survived it, just luck. I wish we who have survived this type of capability challenging flying could impress on newer pilots that it's just not worth it. There will always be another opportunity to fly, if you say "not right now" this time.
+1. My sincere condolences to the families for your loss.

I can affirm that west of ottawa, towards haliburton at night it gets awfully dark. Its a rather high stress night flight in a bug smasher as a newer VFR, and even experienced, and IFR rated, it's not a route I'm thrilled with. Far too dark. Really is IMC for all intensive purposes, ESP if any cloud or haze is added.

Weather should be, well pretty much perfect for such a route when inexperienced, my thought for the VFR's out there.
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by slam525i »

I find this accident really sad and disappointing.

Night VFR over un-populated areas is essentially instrument flying and I would never attempt it without a nav aid of some sort. As a low time VFR guy, the fight against the "leans" is very distracting. Couple that with dead reckoning, desperately searching for lights populated areas, and it could all go wrong in a hurry.

If they really just got lost, I hate to think the lives were lost for the lack of a GPS. Even something simple like an old GPS III Pilot would have done the job.
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by JungianJugular »

*deleted*
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Last edited by JungianJugular on Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by JungianJugular »

slam525i wrote:
If they really just got lost, I hate to think the lives were lost for the lack of a GPS. E
Lack of a GPS is not to blame here..
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Re: Missing north of Peterborough

Post by C-FABH »

Plane in fatal crash had violated airspace above G-G’s residence

The Globe and Mail
Published Wednesday, Nov. 12 2014, 4:00 PM EST
A small plane that crashed in Algonquin Provincial Park on Tuesday night had wandered into the restricted airspace above the Governor-General’s residence just after the Remembrance Day ceremonies.

The Cessna 150, which had left from the Buttonville municipal airport near Toronto, was on its way back from Ottawa later in the evening when it got lost and ran out of fuel. A military search operation located the crash site on Wednesday morning and found that the two men aboard, a pilot and a passenger in their 20s, had died.

The incident over Rideau Hall was minor and did not result in any actions from authorities. The restricted airspace is located near Ottawa’s Rockcliffe airport, where the plane was heading.

According to Transport Canada records, about eight hours before it crashed, the plane had strayed into CYR538, the restricted airspace over Rideau Hall, the residence of Canada’s governors-general.

Records show that the incident took place at “1644 Z,” meaning 4:44 p.m. Co-ordinated Universal Time, or around 11:44 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. At that moment, the Remembrance Day ceremony in Ottawa was concluding at the National War Memorial.

At the RCMP’s request, since February, 2012, pilots cannot fly without authorization into the airspace above Parliament Hill and Rideau Hall, to an altitude of 3,000 feet above sea level.

At the time the Cessna crossed into the Rideau Hall restricted zone, it was flying at 1,400 feet.

The information is contained in Transport Canada’s Civil Aviation Daily Occurrence Reporting System, which compiles initial details about incidents involving Canadian aircraft or occurring in Canadian airspace.

The incident report says the plane was a Cessna 150M with the tail marking C-GJAO. Built in 1976, the aircraft is owned by Flyblocktime Inc., a rental company based in Caledon, Ont.

Officials said the plane had left Buttonville airport, northeast of Toronto, and the pilot had intended to return there.

Under the classification “Prohibited/restricted airspace violation,” the report says the Cessna was going to land at Ottawa’s Rockcliffe airport when it was “observed crossing CYR538 Rideau Hall, ON at 1,400 feet.”

There was “no impact on operations,” the report said.
Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat ... e21559674/
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