Can I log Pilot in Command time?

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Allan8552
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Can I log Pilot in Command time?

Post by Allan8552 »

I'm currently type rated on a Citation 2 and I do not have my atpl yet. The aircraft is listed on our AOC as rated to fly two crew as far as I know. Our company has the PF flying from the left seat. I log my time in the right seat as co-pilot time but my question is can I log my time in the left seat as Pilot in Command ? Or no.
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jschnurr
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Re: Can I log Pilot in Command time?

Post by jschnurr »

PF does not equal PIC.
Seat position does not equal PIC.

Your Ops manual should have this clarified.
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porcsord
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Re: Can I log Pilot in Command time?

Post by porcsord »

jschnurr wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:31 pm PF does not equal PIC.
Seat position does not equal PIC.
Oh how I wish people realized this.
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ahramin
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Re: Can I log Pilot in Command time?

Post by ahramin »

Yes, you can legally log it as PIC ... IF you are PIC. If someone else is PIC and you're sitting in the left seat flying the plane and making all the decision until something goes wrong, that person is the PIC, not you, and you can't log it as PIC.
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Allan8552
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Re: Can I log Pilot in Command time?

Post by Allan8552 »

Understood
jschnurr wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:31 pm PF does not equal PIC.
Seat position does not equal PIC.

Your Ops manual should have this clarified.
ahramin wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:27 pm Yes, you can legally log it as PIC ... IF you are PIC. If someone else is PIC and you're sitting in the left seat flying the plane and making all the decision until something goes wrong, that person is the PIC, not you, and you can't log it as PIC.
.

Understood!
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Chaxterium
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Re: Can I log Pilot in Command time?

Post by Chaxterium »

It can be boiled down to this: If at the end of the day, your signature is NOT going in the logbook, then you are not the PIC. End of story. The only exception to this is PICUS. Which, if you're hurting for PIC time for your ATPL, could help you. But you'll have to look into whether your company has the PICUS program.
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Allan8552
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Re: Can I log Pilot in Command time?

Post by Allan8552 »

Chaxterium wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:33 am It can be boiled down to this: If at the end of the day, your signature is NOT going in the logbook, then you are not the PIC. End of story. The only exception to this is PICUS. Which, if you're hurting for PIC time for your ATPL, could help you. But you'll have to look into whether your company has the PICUS program.
They do thankfully. Just need another 7 hours to qualify as I believe I need 150 hours PIC to qualify.
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Chaxterium
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Re: Can I log Pilot in Command time?

Post by Chaxterium »

Yep. That's correct. In order to utilize the PICUS program the candidate must have 150 hours of PIC. You may have to bite the bullet and buy the hours. At least it's only 7. I know guys who've had to buy a lot more than that.

Best of luck.
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praveen4143
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Re: Can I log Pilot in Command time?

Post by praveen4143 »

Chaxterium wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:33 am It can be boiled down to this: If at the end of the day, your signature is NOT going in the logbook, then you are not the PIC. End of story.
Do you mean personal logbook or Journey log? This isn't a thing in Canada as far as I can think.

Personal (pilot) logbooks are only required to be signed by the pilot who it belongs to. The Journey log is usually signed by anyone authorized to do so by the owner or operator of the aircraft. (Although I couldn't readily find the CAR reference for this, so maybe someone please correct me if I am wrong.)
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Chaxterium
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Re: Can I log Pilot in Command time?

Post by Chaxterium »

praveen4143 wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:10 pm
Chaxterium wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:33 am It can be boiled down to this: If at the end of the day, your signature is NOT going in the logbook, then you are not the PIC. End of story.
Do you mean personal logbook or Journey log? This isn't a thing in Canada as far as I can think.

Personal (pilot) logbooks are only required to be signed by the pilot who it belongs to. The Journey log is usually signed by anyone authorized to do so by the owner or operator of the aircraft. (Although I couldn't readily find the CAR reference for this, so maybe someone please correct me if I am wrong.)
Journey log. For every airline I've ever flown for the captain always signs the journey log. I'm honestly not sure if there is a CARs requirement for this or not as I've never had to look it up but for each company I worked for it was a company requirement that the PIC must sign the journey log.
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photofly
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Re: Can I log Pilot in Command time?

Post by photofly »

The required contents of the journey log are listed in schedule 1 to 605.94. Unless at an FTU, the PIC is responsible for the entry for each flight or series of flights. It doesn't say it has to be written by the PIC, it could be delegated. And there is no requirement for the entries to be signed at all.


Aside: why does everyone get a stiffie about signing things? Do people think it's ok to write untruths in logbooks as long as they don't have to sign it? "Oh, well, if I actually have to *sign*, then I guess I better write the truth." What's with that?
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Schooner69A
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Re: Can I log Pilot in Command time?

Post by Schooner69A »

Allan8552: I flew 15 years corporate in a company where we were all aircraft captains and swapped seats every leg. On those legs where I was in the right seat, I logged 'co-pilot'...

John
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praveen4143
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Re: Can I log Pilot in Command time?

Post by praveen4143 »

photofly wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:08 pm The required contents of the journey log are listed in schedule 1 to 605.94. Unless at an FTU, the PIC is responsible for the entry for each flight or series of flights. It doesn't say it has to be written by the PIC, it could be delegated. And there is no requirement for the entries to be signed at all.
Thanks for pointing me towards the schedule. Didn't realize that there was one, albeit a little further down.

For anyone else looking for reference:
JLog.png
JLog.png (38.37 KiB) Viewed 140 times
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