Cargojet

[Starling]

Good evening,

I have some questions about Cargojet.

I would like to be a pilot as seconde officer (if possible on B-727), but should I need to be graduate from Seneca College? Can I get a job with CPL(A), only 250 hours and French diploma (BAC)? Are, IR(A)/ ATPL(A)/ MEP recquired?

Since very long time, my dream is to become an airline pilot on B-727 or B-737-200, but saddely, there're less and less oportunities.

Best regards.

[jpilot77]

I believe that Cargojet is starting to park the 727 as more 757 come online. 737-200 will be used for a while as they are able to land on gravel strips in the north.

[Sky_Conqueror]

Well the previous answer is kind of wrong...CJ just got awarded the Purolator and Canada Post contract that used to be Kelowna Flightcraft's to begin April 1st at 00:00. Although there where definite plans to phase the 727 out, while it is already in the books, now that one of the biggest contract is confirmed, the phasing out is going to take a little more time to complete then initially thought. While it was thought to be 2 years to phase them out, it is now 4 to 6 years even more due to the many contracts that Cargojet now has. And now that the gas prices hover near 60$ a barrel, running the 727 is a little bit less expensive than it was 2 years ago.

Usually operators of the 727 like to have high experienced people to have sit in the back, typically 700TT and higher. Because with the high movement in aviation that there will be within a few months, the wait from the back seat to the right seat can occur faster than the 1 to 4 year wait it used to be. It used to be Seneca College guys only but it seems that policy has somewhat changed.

You must be french and/ or European because there is no ATP for 250 hour guys in Canada. The Frozen ATPL is a JAA and EASA thing only. If it is the case then you must convert the licence to a Canadian license. Usually they will opt for Canadian applicants before European / International applicants... so good luck, its gonna be very hard for you. There is really not a lot of aviation jobs here in Canada presently and we do not need more individuals to over-saturate the already saturated market. Im really not a fan of seeing international individuals steal jobs in which Canadian pilots are qualified to do. This has occurred with a few operators before and has caused alot of conflict and brawl within the industry.

[jpilot77]

I stand corrected about the retirement of the 727, I had seen a couple of them parked at YHM without engines and remember reading that Cargojet was phasing them out.

[Oxi]

You must be french and/ or European because there is no ATP for 250 hour guys in Canada. The Frozen ATPL is a JAA and EASA thing only. If it is the case then you must convert the licence to a Canadian license. Usually they will opt for Canadian applicants before European / International applicants... so good luck, its gonna be very hard for you. There is really not a lot of aviation jobs here in Canada presently and we do not need more individuals to over-saturate the already saturated market. Im really not a fan of seeing international individuals steal jobs in which Canadian pilots are qualified to do. This has occurred with a few operators before and has caused alot of conflict and brawl within the industry.

Not quite... Ottawa Aviation, Cargair, Toronto Airways & Moncton to name a few have guys with 250 hours and a frozen (written ATPL)

[Krimson]

Take it easy Sky Conqueror...

You don't know where the poster is from. Just because someone asks if you need an ATPL to become a SO on a 727 isn't a cause for racism.

[AuxBatOn]

Not quite... Ottawa Aviation, Cargair, Toronto Airways & Moncton to name a few have guys with 250 hours and a frozen (written ATPL)

Not at all. It is the IATRA which merely test your knowledge in getting a 2-crew type rating.

If you read the CARS, there is no reference to "frozen ATPL". Some school will advertise it but what it is an integrated program that allows you to write the ATPL exams at the 205 hrs mark rather than wait at the 750 hrs mark. But it is NOT a frozen ATPL.

[Oxi]

Okay, yes I concur. However the difference between a 750 hour pilot having his ATPL written and a 205 hour pilot to me seems the same. It is frozen in the sense they need more hours.

[AirMail]

Take it easy Sky Conqueror...

You don't know where the poster is from. Just because someone asks if you need an ATPL to become a SO on a 727 isn't a cause for racism.

Please learn the definition of racism before posting. Sky hadn't posted anything racist at all.

[Sky_Conqueror]

Information for a few out there: CJ is now rushing to get a few 27s back up and running again. A few people I know from KFC have been hired strait to go to CJ once the switchover occurs on March 31st. For math loving people out there, there are 127 somewhat pilots at KFC vs. just approx. 70 at CJ. With a contract award as big as Purolator / Canada Post as well as a few other contracts with UPS / First Air etc etc...the number of planes, even though sometimes bigger than a 27, aren't enough to be able to keep things running. The fact that CJ has hired direct from KF shows that they are gearing up as fast as possible to be able to cope with strict delivery time cargo. Hence the rushing to add a few remaining 27s out there. Hiring will be frozen for a little while. I currently know from sources that CJ has ''over-hired'' because it knows that come the next few months/year, depending how things go (Air Canada hiring, Westjet Mainline hiring and the overall Spring Hiring etc), many will quit. To support the east quitting: CJ apparently has no training bond where as KFC does for 2 years. But has an unwritten ''quit-never-come-back'' type policy if the individual does not give somewhat adequate leave notice.

The next paragraph is for those who accuse me of ''racism'' and that I do not know anything about aviation. First of all, thanks @airmail for some support. Whoever has accused me of racism, please refer to the closest dictionary or go online for a definition of racism. Second, having lived in Europe most of my life, a person who writes: French (BAC), CPL(A), IR(A) MEP is clearly from Europe. Therefore they abide to the Frozen ATPL policy to get hired. How many unemployed qualified Canadian Pilots are out there? Hundreds. How many jobs are currently out there...certainly not hundreds! Would you like some foreigner coming free of charge to take a job you have been fighting for years????!!! I certainly do not!!! If you need to be educated on this, please refer to the many threads on Foreign Pilots at Sunwing or Air Transat. There are many more lurking out there to smaller companies, such as Aussies for example out West.

[digits_]

How many unemployed qualified Canadian Pilots are out there? Hundreds. How many jobs are currently out there...certainly not hundreds! Would you like some foreigner coming free of charge to take a job you have been fighting for years????!!! I certainly do not!!! If you need to be educated on this, please refer to the many threads on Foreign Pilots at Sunwing or Air Transat. There are many more lurking out there to smaller companies, such as Aussies for example out West.

Right. And Canadians of course only fly in Canada and never "take" a job in another country

[FL320]

How many unemployed qualified Canadian Pilots are out there? Hundreds. How many jobs are currently out there...certainly not hundreds! Would you like some foreigner coming free of charge to take a job you have been fighting for years????!!! I certainly do not!!! If you need to be educated on this, please refer to the many threads on Foreign Pilots at Sunwing or Air Transat

Sky_Conqueror,
There are no foreign pilots at Air Transat: they all are Canadian Citizen. Some were born in other countries but they all have a Canadian Passport.
In most countries you have hundreds of unemployed qualified local pilots - Canada is not unique. Airlines are looking for EXPERIENCED pilots and not only qualified. If an experienced foreigner get the proper licence and work permit and then steal your job this is probably because you don't have enough experience for the job. Anyway if you have to blame someone, send an email here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/

[Starling]

First of all, thanks for all your informations concerning B-727.

I respect your opinion about what you call "racism" (even if, the word racism is not appropriated... maybe protectionist is a better word? I really don't know).

I can understand your position. (even if it's not my problem and, because I cannot do nothing to change the situation...). Many people lose their jobs due to worldwide crisis. But, there're also many Canadian pilots in Europe, for example, in low-cost companies as Ryannair or.... Easyjet. If I want to work for a Canadian Companies, it's only my right. I know, it's harder to become an airline pilot if I am not a Candian citizen. But as the saying goes, nothing ventured, nothing gained!!! I can try my chance!!! I'm not pessimist about it!!!

[cdnpilot77]

If I want to work for a Canadian Companies, it's only my right. I know, it's harder to become an airline pilot if I am not a Candian citizen.

I hope this is a bit lost in translation. It is not your right to work for a canadian company, if you are not a canadian citizen or having legal authority to work here. Furthermore, canadians born and raised here or who have immigrated, do not have the right to work for a Canadian company. That still must be earned.....legally. The number of canadians working in Europe or elsewhere is completely irrelevant to whether you should have the right to work here.

[Inverted2]

How many unemployed qualified Canadian Pilots are out there? Hundreds. How many jobs are currently out there...certainly not hundreds! Would you like some foreigner coming free of charge to take a job you have been fighting for years????!!! I certainly do not!!! If you need to be educated on this, please refer to the many threads on Foreign Pilots at Sunwing or Air Transat. There are many more lurking out there to smaller companies, such as Aussies for example out West.

Right. And Canadians of course only fly in Canada and never "take" a job in another country

You mean like Asia or the Middle East? They take Canadians because they have very few experienced pilots of their own to draw from.

[L1011]

People have been hired at CJ as a 727 SO with just a CPL, MIFR and 250 hours, Seneca grad or not. Just apply and see what happens!

And also, "Sky Conqueror" does not have a clue what he's talking about when it comes to Cargojet.

[cxchd]

If you go to CJ on the 727 you will be based either in Mirabel or Winnipeg. No commuting. They do not allow you to jumpseat on their own airplanes and they have no reciprocals. Just to let you know. On the plus side you will get multi-crew, jet experience and they have no bonds. Probably get into the right seat even with low time fairly quick.

[twincomanche]

great company to work for when you can't jumpseat on your aircraft to get the job done..how about joining the rest of the world..good luck CJ

[glorifieddriver]

If you go to CJ on the 727 you will be based either in Mirabel or Winnipeg. No commuting. They do not allow you to jumpseat on their own airplanes and they have no reciprocals. Just to let you know. On the plus side you will get multi-crew, jet experience and they have no bonds. Probably get into the right seat even with low time fairly quick.

Are you sure about jump seats? I know that any CJ employee used to be able to jump seat. Pilots, ground staff, anyone...

I would look into that further more.

[AZ382]

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