In the Perimeter Ramp Wait Time thread Xsbank shared how he landed his first flying job.
He wrote:
"My first job was with 240 hours, hired as a (possible) pilot (when the ice would go out) but they put me to work building docks at somewhere north of La Ronge. They watched me for a week then they checked me out on a 180 on floats. Flew the first 3 weeks out of a camp unsupervised then charters all summer until the snow flew."
Great idea Xsbank, instead of admonishing the new commercial pilots on this forum for taking ramp jobs let's help mentor them with stories of how us experienced pilots were successful in getting our first flying jobs.
In my case I earned my commercial license at nineteen years old and for the next year sent out resumes across Canada with no results, I also went to every operator in my home town at least once a month in person, although most chief pilots at that time were happy to chat with me I had no luck finding work, I would also two or three times a month go to the restaurant at the FBO and just hang out and meet people. Then one day while at the restaurant I was approached by a gentleman who said " I hear from so and so that you're looking for a job, well my pilot just quit unexpectedly and I need someone to fly my plane (a Cessna 421B) by the end of the week, you up for it kid?" Of course I said yes sir!! We spent the week doing training flights then he and I went into the field ( it was a survey plane) and he flew with me for two weeks before he cut me loose.
Was I lucky? For sure! But you also make your own luck, had I not been the guy hanging around the airport in my spare time no one would have known me and suggested to that gentleman that I was looking for a job when he needed someone ASAP.
I can't stress enough how important connections and personality are in this industry.
Stay positive and remember when you look up and see everything from a Navajo to a A380 flying over head, everyone in those cockpits at one time had 200 hrs just like you.
How we scored our first job
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
How we scored our first job
Last edited by Roar on Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."
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Chuck Ellsworth
- Rank 11
- Posts: 3074
- Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:49 am
- Location: Always moving
Re: How we scored our first job
My first job flying was with Central Airways where I got my PPL / CPL and instructors rating.
They hired me as soon as I finished my instructors rating.
I paid for my training by driving trucks during the week and training on weekends.
My first job outside of instructing was at 252 hours when I started training as an aerial applicator pilot.
The training was given to me at no charge and when I was finished I started spraying tobacco with a J3 Cub.
Best fuc.in job I ever had.
They hired me as soon as I finished my instructors rating.
I paid for my training by driving trucks during the week and training on weekends.
My first job outside of instructing was at 252 hours when I started training as an aerial applicator pilot.
The training was given to me at no charge and when I was finished I started spraying tobacco with a J3 Cub.
Best fuc.in job I ever had.
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
Re: How we scored our first job
On a cold Tuesday evening while sipping back 3-4 liters of moonshine a buddy slurs to me "Heeyyyyy i nose i guy ooo cad go fly for" 3 weeks later i was crashing a king air onto gravel strips all over the north hammering out a 80 plus hours a month.
Never ever turn down an opportunity to drink fine backwoods hooch with fellow pilots. It will get you further than any well polished resume ever will.
Never ever turn down an opportunity to drink fine backwoods hooch with fellow pilots. It will get you further than any well polished resume ever will.
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ClevelandSteamer
- Rank 2
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:32 pm
Re: How we scored our first job
My dad was with me visiting in Yellowknife at the same time I was working at Buffalo Airways, I got a call from the CP at Little Red, interview the next day!! My dad said, lets drive to Fort Vermilion and back, will drive all night and switch turns if we have too, do the interview and ten drive back, you'll miss half a day of work. I did exactly that and got my first flying job. On that trip I studied the company in and out, and the bonus to all of it was I sw my first Northern Lights somewhere on Highway 55?? 58? Thanks Dad.
Still weeerkin on it
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iflyforpie
- Top Poster
- Posts: 8132
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:25 pm
- Location: Winterfell...
Re: How we scored our first job
My first flying job was with Southern Skies Aviation in Penticton. I already worked for them as an AME and took my CPL, IFR with them. Got put on the 172 doing boat counts and the PA-32 doing cargo runs while I was finishing up my instructor ticket with two and change in the logbook. I've never done ramp.
Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
Re: How we scored our first job
Passed my commercial in July 91 with a float rating.
230hrs TT
No money left for a multi IFR rating which I though would be useless for me to have at the time.
So I picked the flight supplement to look for....Drop zones, the only places that could hire a low timer like me.
The first one I went, they literally laughed at me! Reminding that we were already mid summer so no need of anybody! They didn't even wish me good luck when I left.
Following day, I went to another skydiving place and became their saviour!
They needed a pilot for the next day.
3 Touch & Go became my C-182's check on type and they would pay me afterwards 12 to 15$ a load (1991)
The "day only" became:"can you come next weekend?" ..And the next and full time very quickly.
We worked out an AOC when it became mandatory for Drop Zones to have one.
Adding charter to it with C206's
A Beech 18 came up too. Which gave me my 500hr twin time required everywhere else
So with a bit of luck anything can happen.
230hrs TT
No money left for a multi IFR rating which I though would be useless for me to have at the time.
So I picked the flight supplement to look for....Drop zones, the only places that could hire a low timer like me.
The first one I went, they literally laughed at me! Reminding that we were already mid summer so no need of anybody! They didn't even wish me good luck when I left.
Following day, I went to another skydiving place and became their saviour!
They needed a pilot for the next day.
3 Touch & Go became my C-182's check on type and they would pay me afterwards 12 to 15$ a load (1991)
The "day only" became:"can you come next weekend?" ..And the next and full time very quickly.
We worked out an AOC when it became mandatory for Drop Zones to have one.
Adding charter to it with C206's
A Beech 18 came up too. Which gave me my 500hr twin time required everywhere else
So with a bit of luck anything can happen.
Re: How we scored our first job
Good idea.
I just have to add, I had a 1966 Renault R8 and I loaded it with tools, a sleeping bag, couple pairs of jeans, a mackinaw, some nibblies and a bunch of work gloves and I drove from Prince Rupert to Kenora, stopping at every remote-ish airport enroute. Called, mailed resumes, dropped in, everything I could think of. No luck. Then, while whiling away the time with my crazy cousin in Winnipeg where I first tasted poutine and heard the Guess Who, I got a call. They had phoned Vancouver, my parents gave them my number in Winterpeg and the message was to get to Missinnippe, the leetle place north of La Ronge, as Nipawin Air/Thompson's Camps, needed a pilot. That was it, another couple of tanks of fuel, back on the Yellowhead. When I arrived they handed me an axe, pointed at the lake and said "build a dock." A week later there was enough water showing so they pulled the tarps off and threw the 180 (a 1956 model) into the lake and fired it up. They taxied it around a bit then Joe hands me a map, points to it and says "take me to this lake." Did a nice takeoff [8^)], flew to the lake and he says "fine, take me home." I turned the old girl around, flew back to the original lake and landed, taxied to the dock and he says "get your gear, fuel her up and go to Suggi Lake to haul fish."
That was my checkout.
The Renault spent the summer parked behind the hangar and I didn't get back to it until late September, another 300 hours in the log.
I just have to add, I had a 1966 Renault R8 and I loaded it with tools, a sleeping bag, couple pairs of jeans, a mackinaw, some nibblies and a bunch of work gloves and I drove from Prince Rupert to Kenora, stopping at every remote-ish airport enroute. Called, mailed resumes, dropped in, everything I could think of. No luck. Then, while whiling away the time with my crazy cousin in Winnipeg where I first tasted poutine and heard the Guess Who, I got a call. They had phoned Vancouver, my parents gave them my number in Winterpeg and the message was to get to Missinnippe, the leetle place north of La Ronge, as Nipawin Air/Thompson's Camps, needed a pilot. That was it, another couple of tanks of fuel, back on the Yellowhead. When I arrived they handed me an axe, pointed at the lake and said "build a dock." A week later there was enough water showing so they pulled the tarps off and threw the 180 (a 1956 model) into the lake and fired it up. They taxied it around a bit then Joe hands me a map, points to it and says "take me to this lake." Did a nice takeoff [8^)], flew to the lake and he says "fine, take me home." I turned the old girl around, flew back to the original lake and landed, taxied to the dock and he says "get your gear, fuel her up and go to Suggi Lake to haul fish."
That was my checkout.
The Renault spent the summer parked behind the hangar and I didn't get back to it until late September, another 300 hours in the log.
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
Re: How we scored our first job
These are great stories! Persistence and perseverance are key.
As for myself, as with many people- a series of gigantic False Starts....
#1) 250 hr MIFR- Incredibly lucky, tasked with purchasing, managing, and flying what ended up being a PA31-325 for a brand new construction company who didn't know anything about airplanes. It was a hell of a lot for a fresh CPL to learn. 6 months later we had an airplane, Mx, and everything else set up, with the help of many generous people (most on here).
We got insurance, I got into the checkout, and then on Friday the 13th I received an email (not even a phone call) that their accountant told them to return the plane. I looked like an idiot when I approached the seller to buy it back. They lost a ton of money on the deal, and I made sure to invoice them for every hour I spent on the project for the previous 6 months. At least they paid it.
Out of work- time for a Big Road Trip! Met lots of terrific people, was WAY too picky- turned down no less than 6 ground positions. (Including North-Wright, when they told me the bond.) I was still thinking I'd have no problem getting a flying job after how quickly that Ho position came up... (Boy, did I have a lot to learn about aviation.....) Which brings us to ....
#2) Started work as a dispatch/hotel desk clerk at TWA- obtained through a reference from a very generous member here who let me crash at his place on my previously mentioned trip. (Thanks Lost!! I think...lol)
Met more great people, many whom I still talk to, but after 3 months I looked at the money I spent on a BSc, and CPL, and decided that manning a hotel desk for a chance to sit right seat in a Navajo in a year was NOT where I wanted to be. Cordially gave notice, and 2 weeks later headed west towards the mountains. I can't make this up; but when I arrived in Calgary after 12 hours of driving, literally the SECOND my foot touched the ground when I parked in front of my friend's house, my phone rang with an offer to fly a PA-18 on floats in Ontario. It was a disgruntled owner who wasn't happy with his pilot, wanted a replacement ASAP. So, spent the night in Calgary, and the next day turned around and headed East again... turns out this would be False Start...
.....#3) I discovered later that the owner had called me in the heat of the moment, after arguing with his pilot who wouldn't take off with 35kt winds in the cub. My call was the result of a "You go or I pick up this phone and find someone who will". Wow. Should have been my first red flag. By the time I arrived they had resolved the argument, and the owner didn't give a flying rat's ass about me. I stayed for a bit, scrubbing boats, decks, painting, and got about 10 hours on the cub while the other guy flew daily. I took about every 10th flight. I don't mind hard work, but it was clearly going nowhere, and the owner seemed to resent his mistake. I left after staying for far too long, without a word and certainly no apology or thank-you from the owner. I did gain 10 lbs eating amazing walleye every night however.
Time to rethink things. Now, living away from my fiance for almost 6 months, we reunited in SWOnt. Got an instructor rating, discovered I have a definite knack for teaching, and found my stride. Was hired within a few weeks of completion, and within a year I was put exclusively on a twin for all MIFR training. Now, after dozens and dozens of successful renewals and initials, I have a very healthy amount of MPIC for my relatively low TT, a great group of peers and students, word of mouth clientele, and am almost sad to leave for my next job, which starts in a month.
Stay focused, and make good choices (It's OK to turn down a job, just think carefully). It's absolutely freaking emasculating to start in this industry!
As for myself, as with many people- a series of gigantic False Starts....
#1) 250 hr MIFR- Incredibly lucky, tasked with purchasing, managing, and flying what ended up being a PA31-325 for a brand new construction company who didn't know anything about airplanes. It was a hell of a lot for a fresh CPL to learn. 6 months later we had an airplane, Mx, and everything else set up, with the help of many generous people (most on here).
We got insurance, I got into the checkout, and then on Friday the 13th I received an email (not even a phone call) that their accountant told them to return the plane. I looked like an idiot when I approached the seller to buy it back. They lost a ton of money on the deal, and I made sure to invoice them for every hour I spent on the project for the previous 6 months. At least they paid it.
Out of work- time for a Big Road Trip! Met lots of terrific people, was WAY too picky- turned down no less than 6 ground positions. (Including North-Wright, when they told me the bond.) I was still thinking I'd have no problem getting a flying job after how quickly that Ho position came up... (Boy, did I have a lot to learn about aviation.....) Which brings us to ....
#2) Started work as a dispatch/hotel desk clerk at TWA- obtained through a reference from a very generous member here who let me crash at his place on my previously mentioned trip. (Thanks Lost!! I think...lol)
Met more great people, many whom I still talk to, but after 3 months I looked at the money I spent on a BSc, and CPL, and decided that manning a hotel desk for a chance to sit right seat in a Navajo in a year was NOT where I wanted to be. Cordially gave notice, and 2 weeks later headed west towards the mountains. I can't make this up; but when I arrived in Calgary after 12 hours of driving, literally the SECOND my foot touched the ground when I parked in front of my friend's house, my phone rang with an offer to fly a PA-18 on floats in Ontario. It was a disgruntled owner who wasn't happy with his pilot, wanted a replacement ASAP. So, spent the night in Calgary, and the next day turned around and headed East again... turns out this would be False Start...
.....#3) I discovered later that the owner had called me in the heat of the moment, after arguing with his pilot who wouldn't take off with 35kt winds in the cub. My call was the result of a "You go or I pick up this phone and find someone who will". Wow. Should have been my first red flag. By the time I arrived they had resolved the argument, and the owner didn't give a flying rat's ass about me. I stayed for a bit, scrubbing boats, decks, painting, and got about 10 hours on the cub while the other guy flew daily. I took about every 10th flight. I don't mind hard work, but it was clearly going nowhere, and the owner seemed to resent his mistake. I left after staying for far too long, without a word and certainly no apology or thank-you from the owner. I did gain 10 lbs eating amazing walleye every night however.
Time to rethink things. Now, living away from my fiance for almost 6 months, we reunited in SWOnt. Got an instructor rating, discovered I have a definite knack for teaching, and found my stride. Was hired within a few weeks of completion, and within a year I was put exclusively on a twin for all MIFR training. Now, after dozens and dozens of successful renewals and initials, I have a very healthy amount of MPIC for my relatively low TT, a great group of peers and students, word of mouth clientele, and am almost sad to leave for my next job, which starts in a month.
Stay focused, and make good choices (It's OK to turn down a job, just think carefully). It's absolutely freaking emasculating to start in this industry!
Re: How we scored our first job
Heres mine..
I called every operator with a 180/185/206/207 and cherokee 6 I could find. Drove across the country and back hitting every spot I could find from transports little online AOC list. Came up stumped, then got lucky and George called me up and said 'Call up the other pilot, he lives in the okanagan, if he likes you, get out here when the season starts'. The phone call went well 'do you like to drink beer and water ski?' Hell yes!
Showed up, was immediately checked out in the 180 and flew some dual in the beav while opening camps and working the dock. That netted me my first 150hrs PIC on the 180. One of the best gigs I've had! We had a blast. That set me up for the next season and here I am 10 years later
I called every operator with a 180/185/206/207 and cherokee 6 I could find. Drove across the country and back hitting every spot I could find from transports little online AOC list. Came up stumped, then got lucky and George called me up and said 'Call up the other pilot, he lives in the okanagan, if he likes you, get out here when the season starts'. The phone call went well 'do you like to drink beer and water ski?' Hell yes!
Showed up, was immediately checked out in the 180 and flew some dual in the beav while opening camps and working the dock. That netted me my first 150hrs PIC on the 180. One of the best gigs I've had! We had a blast. That set me up for the next season and here I am 10 years later
Re: How we scored our first job
All really good stories folks!
What i'm hearing are fairly unique stories and individual "one off" ways of breaking into the industry.
Canada will need how many thousands of pilots in the next decade? two decades? We can't all have unique "one off" ways of breaking into flying.
I am the product of a puppy mill "ramp-flying" program. I was hired right out of flight school, worked for just under a year throwing bags, answering phones and company flight following. I was paid aprox $14/hr 40 hr weeks (equivalent) with over-time available fairly often. I got started right seat on a comfy and safe twin turbo-prop, went captain after 2 years right seat and received my ATPL less than a year later.
I now fly up north making in the $80's/year + per diems and have no ambition of taking a pay cut.
It depends on the company, and what ground positions are offered. But I've heard great stories from people getting a start at Perimeter, Wasaya, CMA, Orca, Transwest, Westwind and (especially) Airsprint.
If I could do it all over again as a 200 hr pilot and had the choice of;
1) Single piston captain on a sketchy cessna 206,
2) direct right seat on a sketchy navajo, or
3) easy ramp job at Airsprint that would eventually lead right seat on a Citation after 1-2 years.
Theres no question which one I'd take. To each thier own.
What i'm hearing are fairly unique stories and individual "one off" ways of breaking into the industry.
Canada will need how many thousands of pilots in the next decade? two decades? We can't all have unique "one off" ways of breaking into flying.
I am the product of a puppy mill "ramp-flying" program. I was hired right out of flight school, worked for just under a year throwing bags, answering phones and company flight following. I was paid aprox $14/hr 40 hr weeks (equivalent) with over-time available fairly often. I got started right seat on a comfy and safe twin turbo-prop, went captain after 2 years right seat and received my ATPL less than a year later.
I now fly up north making in the $80's/year + per diems and have no ambition of taking a pay cut.
It depends on the company, and what ground positions are offered. But I've heard great stories from people getting a start at Perimeter, Wasaya, CMA, Orca, Transwest, Westwind and (especially) Airsprint.
If I could do it all over again as a 200 hr pilot and had the choice of;
1) Single piston captain on a sketchy cessna 206,
2) direct right seat on a sketchy navajo, or
3) easy ramp job at Airsprint that would eventually lead right seat on a Citation after 1-2 years.
Theres no question which one I'd take. To each thier own.
Re: How we scored our first job
Twenty years ago I took some unorthodox advice and instead of a float rating chose the multi-IFR after completing my commercial fixed-wing license.
Though I'd never actually flown in one, I had already fallen in love and set my sights on the DC-3 as my holy grail. I scoured the TC Civil Aircraft Register for every company in Canada that the type, and then set my sights on Saskatchewan. This BC born and raised pilot figured that all the competition would be headed for Ontario - who the heck would move to Saskatchewan? Turns out Saskatchewan is second only to Newfoundland for friendly residents....
A phone call to the Chief Pilot for the company in question confirmed he would interview me if I showed up. I promptly bade goodbye to the boyfriend, packed up my old Mercedes Benz with my dog, tools, survival gear and other important possessions and set off into my first real winter. I made a pit stop in Kamloops where a BCFS friend and past co-worker hooked me up with some stale dated AvGas -thanks Ken! which we pumped into 10 gallon kegs I found at a garage sale. Before he let me stay the night he made me promise not to disassemble any carburetors on his kitchen table (I had been previously guilty of this heinous crime - in my defense it was the cleanest surface I could find!) Enroute I siphoned the kegs into my tank -it was enough to carry me to La Ronge, and later a side trip to Flin Flon, MB.
I couldn't afford any hotels enroute so I slept in my car at -40. Conveniently, I discovered plug-ins were standard in most parking lots and I was able to plug in a small ceramic heater to complement the Woods 5-Star sleeping bag my Dad had given me. After getting some local intel I left my car in La Ronge and begged transport for myself and dog from a transport truck driver headed north up the bush road. We arrived at Points North Landing in the wee hours of the morning to -65C with the windchill.
That Chief Pilot was true to his word and I got the job on the spot - hired as a dock hand for the upcoming season with a promise of a float endorsement if I worked out. This was precisely in line with the advice I had been given when I chose the multi-IFR over the float endorsement. I returned to La Ronge where I slept in the fuel shack for several weeks and studied for the IATRA exam (the baby ATP exam that allows a pilot with low hours to be co-pilot in an aircraft over 12,500 lbs). After writing the exam in Saskatoon and with nothing else to do but wait for spring I called the Chief Pilot and asked if I could just hang out in camp until break-up - maybe they could feed me and let me ride around on the DC-3.
My first flight in the DC-3 was in an aircraft so jammed with freight we had to disembark out the roof hatch and down the roof at the destination. It was with some embarrassment I finally had to admit to the burly captain that this city girl was deathly afraid of heights and too chicken to get out! Without a word he grabbed my hand and held it tight as we slid down the roof on our bums - thanks Roger!
For the next month I got to explore mining camps, native communities and random frozen lakes in my favorite airplane (which was every bit as wonderful as I expected), helping to offload all manner of weird and wonderful freight in the most adverse of conditions. I loved it.
Suddenly it became spring and float ground school was to begin - I had been invited to sit in. Unexpectedly the Chief Pilot called me into his office and I feared I was to be fired for being so overzealous in my efforts to prove myself worthy of a pilot seat. In a stern tone he asked if I had a float endorsement and I replied that I did not. He asked if I was sure - 'Well of course I'm sure!' I replied. 'Well I guess we'll have to give you one...' was the response and suddenly I was grinning so hard I didn't hear the rest. The C-185 pilot had unexpectedly quit and that opened the door to my fixed-wing flying career.
I didn't have to sleep in the car at -40 to get my first helicopter job but it required the same amount of perseverance, fortitude and creative thinking - coupled with a substantial amount of rejection before achieving the objective.
Cheers,
snoopy
Though I'd never actually flown in one, I had already fallen in love and set my sights on the DC-3 as my holy grail. I scoured the TC Civil Aircraft Register for every company in Canada that the type, and then set my sights on Saskatchewan. This BC born and raised pilot figured that all the competition would be headed for Ontario - who the heck would move to Saskatchewan? Turns out Saskatchewan is second only to Newfoundland for friendly residents....
A phone call to the Chief Pilot for the company in question confirmed he would interview me if I showed up. I promptly bade goodbye to the boyfriend, packed up my old Mercedes Benz with my dog, tools, survival gear and other important possessions and set off into my first real winter. I made a pit stop in Kamloops where a BCFS friend and past co-worker hooked me up with some stale dated AvGas -thanks Ken! which we pumped into 10 gallon kegs I found at a garage sale. Before he let me stay the night he made me promise not to disassemble any carburetors on his kitchen table (I had been previously guilty of this heinous crime - in my defense it was the cleanest surface I could find!) Enroute I siphoned the kegs into my tank -it was enough to carry me to La Ronge, and later a side trip to Flin Flon, MB.
I couldn't afford any hotels enroute so I slept in my car at -40. Conveniently, I discovered plug-ins were standard in most parking lots and I was able to plug in a small ceramic heater to complement the Woods 5-Star sleeping bag my Dad had given me. After getting some local intel I left my car in La Ronge and begged transport for myself and dog from a transport truck driver headed north up the bush road. We arrived at Points North Landing in the wee hours of the morning to -65C with the windchill.
That Chief Pilot was true to his word and I got the job on the spot - hired as a dock hand for the upcoming season with a promise of a float endorsement if I worked out. This was precisely in line with the advice I had been given when I chose the multi-IFR over the float endorsement. I returned to La Ronge where I slept in the fuel shack for several weeks and studied for the IATRA exam (the baby ATP exam that allows a pilot with low hours to be co-pilot in an aircraft over 12,500 lbs). After writing the exam in Saskatoon and with nothing else to do but wait for spring I called the Chief Pilot and asked if I could just hang out in camp until break-up - maybe they could feed me and let me ride around on the DC-3.
My first flight in the DC-3 was in an aircraft so jammed with freight we had to disembark out the roof hatch and down the roof at the destination. It was with some embarrassment I finally had to admit to the burly captain that this city girl was deathly afraid of heights and too chicken to get out! Without a word he grabbed my hand and held it tight as we slid down the roof on our bums - thanks Roger!
For the next month I got to explore mining camps, native communities and random frozen lakes in my favorite airplane (which was every bit as wonderful as I expected), helping to offload all manner of weird and wonderful freight in the most adverse of conditions. I loved it.
Suddenly it became spring and float ground school was to begin - I had been invited to sit in. Unexpectedly the Chief Pilot called me into his office and I feared I was to be fired for being so overzealous in my efforts to prove myself worthy of a pilot seat. In a stern tone he asked if I had a float endorsement and I replied that I did not. He asked if I was sure - 'Well of course I'm sure!' I replied. 'Well I guess we'll have to give you one...' was the response and suddenly I was grinning so hard I didn't hear the rest. The C-185 pilot had unexpectedly quit and that opened the door to my fixed-wing flying career.
I didn't have to sleep in the car at -40 to get my first helicopter job but it required the same amount of perseverance, fortitude and creative thinking - coupled with a substantial amount of rejection before achieving the objective.
Cheers,
snoopy
“Never interrupt someone doing something you said couldn’t be done.” Amelia Earhart
Re: How we scored our first job
Gal I had met in Toronto posted on FB "Anyone that wants a job flying a King Air 200 in Thompson send me a message" My reply was "Pick me, Pick Me, Pick Me"
We went back and forth via text that evening. I had to interview and there were no assurances I would get the job. I had $1100 bucks in the bank and it was going to cost me $975 to fly to Winnipeg and then drive up north for the interview. Sometime around 2am, I was deciding whether or not to bet everything I had. Her last text message was "Just F$#king do it.
Most exciting road trip of my life followed. A couple weeks later I got the call.
Flew 6 months as an FO on the 200, then a year single pilot on the HO. 18 months after my first flight at the company I did my left seat PPC on the 200.
When I drove up north I brought a buddy along for the drive to keep me company and meet the CP. When we got to Winnipeg he thought about jumping out because the cost of getting home from further north grew exponentially. I insisted he keep going and meet the CP. He started on the ramp before I finished my training and was a 200 capt and assistant DFO within a couple of years.
6 other buddies came along. All left with smiles and a wealth of knowledge. Best 2 years of my life up there!
Lots of people said the north would suck and highlighted the enormous costs associated with leaving (friends, family, girls with all their teeth etc...) I smiled and went anyway because I knew the adventure that lay ahead would be life altering!
We went back and forth via text that evening. I had to interview and there were no assurances I would get the job. I had $1100 bucks in the bank and it was going to cost me $975 to fly to Winnipeg and then drive up north for the interview. Sometime around 2am, I was deciding whether or not to bet everything I had. Her last text message was "Just F$#king do it.
Most exciting road trip of my life followed. A couple weeks later I got the call.
Flew 6 months as an FO on the 200, then a year single pilot on the HO. 18 months after my first flight at the company I did my left seat PPC on the 200.
When I drove up north I brought a buddy along for the drive to keep me company and meet the CP. When we got to Winnipeg he thought about jumping out because the cost of getting home from further north grew exponentially. I insisted he keep going and meet the CP. He started on the ramp before I finished my training and was a 200 capt and assistant DFO within a couple of years.
6 other buddies came along. All left with smiles and a wealth of knowledge. Best 2 years of my life up there!
Lots of people said the north would suck and highlighted the enormous costs associated with leaving (friends, family, girls with all their teeth etc...) I smiled and went anyway because I knew the adventure that lay ahead would be life altering!
x15
Skin, Tin, Ticket...In that order.
Skin, Tin, Ticket...In that order.
Re: How we scored our first job
Lots of senior guys berating the newbies in the job threads for working the ramp, dock, dispatch, or anything non-flying after they've finished their CPL. Yet in this thread, these are the stories of the first job:
Working the ramp at one company before landing a flying gig at another
Paying for the instructor rating, working office phone, then instructing
An entire year of searching before finding/lucking into a job
Building docks
Working as an AME before finishing training
Skydiving
The lucky 2 who started in the right seat immediately
Ramp
Dock
Etc etc
My point being, it's hard to berate the newbies, when it's the same path many of you have taken.
FWIW, I worked the ramp until the first flying seat opened up (about 3 months), and consider myself lucky as competition was brisk (1999) and there were many guys/gals who searched around for months at a time before getting hired.
Working the ramp at one company before landing a flying gig at another
Paying for the instructor rating, working office phone, then instructing
An entire year of searching before finding/lucking into a job
Building docks
Working as an AME before finishing training
Skydiving
The lucky 2 who started in the right seat immediately
Ramp
Dock
Etc etc
My point being, it's hard to berate the newbies, when it's the same path many of you have taken.
FWIW, I worked the ramp until the first flying seat opened up (about 3 months), and consider myself lucky as competition was brisk (1999) and there were many guys/gals who searched around for months at a time before getting hired.
Re: How we scored our first job
Totally agree with you Donald, that's why I started this thread.
"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."
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Illya Kuryakin
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1311
- Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:14 pm
- Location: The Gulag Archipelago
Re: How we scored our first job
Well Donald, EVERY instructor had to pay for an instructor rating. Just as every pilot's mom and dad paid for their licence (tongue in cheek)
My first job was instructing. Instructing payed for two years of university for me. Waterloo, Stratford, Markham, Thunder Bay.
Then, two summers of fire detection. One year in a 310. One year in an Aztec.
Followed by DC3 for various operators. Two winters on skis.
Many others, too many to name, most long gone.
Seem to remember having to vacuum the office one night because the sheep had made quite the mess. Another thread some day. But that's as close as I ever came to ramp work.....and it was the other guy's sheep.
Best job? Toss up. This one and my two week on, one week off gig flying night freight in a large turbo prop twin out of YYZ. That was fun.
Worst job? The winters in a trailer flying the ski Daks!
Had loads of hoots flying twin Otters out of Toronto Island.
Best flight? The Bahamas for three weeks in a rented 150 before I got my CPL.
Second best flight? The Bahamas again in an Arrow.
Coolest airplane flown? DH Vampire.
Crappiest airplane flown? Lark Commander and C320.
Worst flight? I can think of 2 or 3, but everybody lived....so they weren't all that bad.
Be careful out there.
Illya
My first job was instructing. Instructing payed for two years of university for me. Waterloo, Stratford, Markham, Thunder Bay.
Then, two summers of fire detection. One year in a 310. One year in an Aztec.
Followed by DC3 for various operators. Two winters on skis.
Many others, too many to name, most long gone.
Seem to remember having to vacuum the office one night because the sheep had made quite the mess. Another thread some day. But that's as close as I ever came to ramp work.....and it was the other guy's sheep.
Best job? Toss up. This one and my two week on, one week off gig flying night freight in a large turbo prop twin out of YYZ. That was fun.
Worst job? The winters in a trailer flying the ski Daks!
Had loads of hoots flying twin Otters out of Toronto Island.
Best flight? The Bahamas for three weeks in a rented 150 before I got my CPL.
Second best flight? The Bahamas again in an Arrow.
Coolest airplane flown? DH Vampire.
Crappiest airplane flown? Lark Commander and C320.
Worst flight? I can think of 2 or 3, but everybody lived....so they weren't all that bad.
Be careful out there.
Illya
Wish I didn't know now, what I didn't know then.
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Big Pistons Forever
- Top Poster
- Posts: 5953
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:17 pm
- Location: West Coast
Re: How we scored our first job
I am the poster child for it is better to Lucky then Good when it comes to getting hired.
PPL at 17 and flew for fun for 10 years. I had 2 careers going one which paid pretty well so I decided to do a CPL just to be a better pilot and I had enough flight time to do the old short unapproved CPL.
During the CPL my instructor said why don't you get an instructor rating and do some part time instructing, so I thought about it and decided to go for it.
Worked on the FI rating while working full time on a contract position, so I scheduled my ride for one week after the contract ended figuring I would concentrate on passing the FI flight test and then look for work in the same (non aviation) field.
While I was in the air with the Fed doing my ride, one of the school's instructors got a call from a buddy. It was "We need a Ho driver NOW, get your ass over here !". He stood up, told the CFI "I quit" and walked out the door.
5 minutes later I walked in and the CFI said "Did ya Pass ?" I said "Yup" he said "Want a full time instructor job ?", I said "Sure" , the rest is history...
Smartest move: Starting my flying career debt free and with money in the bank
Dumbest move: Starting an aviation career
PPL at 17 and flew for fun for 10 years. I had 2 careers going one which paid pretty well so I decided to do a CPL just to be a better pilot and I had enough flight time to do the old short unapproved CPL.
During the CPL my instructor said why don't you get an instructor rating and do some part time instructing, so I thought about it and decided to go for it.
Worked on the FI rating while working full time on a contract position, so I scheduled my ride for one week after the contract ended figuring I would concentrate on passing the FI flight test and then look for work in the same (non aviation) field.
While I was in the air with the Fed doing my ride, one of the school's instructors got a call from a buddy. It was "We need a Ho driver NOW, get your ass over here !". He stood up, told the CFI "I quit" and walked out the door.
5 minutes later I walked in and the CFI said "Did ya Pass ?" I said "Yup" he said "Want a full time instructor job ?", I said "Sure" , the rest is history...
Smartest move: Starting my flying career debt free and with money in the bank
Dumbest move: Starting an aviation career
Re: How we scored our first job
I started totally backwards, and it seems like I'm still kind of turned around, however...
My first job with a fresh CPL. and 200 hours was as the chief pilot, operations manager, and maintenance control manager of a 2 plane, 703 charter/flight training unit.
I learned how to fly with this outfit, and was promised a charter pilot position when I completed my training, and pretty much the day I had my 200 hours, the former "chief of 3" left for greener pastures, and the owner said to me, well, someone's gotta' take over all the duties, might as well be you.
A couple of years later, with 800 hours and a fresh float endorsement, I headed north in a beat down $500 Honda in pursuit of a float job. I took a job as a dispatcher/night motel manager up north in order to get my foot in the door of a float operation, and 12 months later, I was sitting in the left seat of a 185 on floats.
I flew floats for a decade all over Canada, (185, -2, -3T, 208) flying hard all summer and skiing and surfing hard all winter. Eventually, I got married, had a son, bought a house, and realized that if I didn't make a move sooner than later, I would be painted into a corner with no other option other than flying floats for the rest of my career.
So I did my multi-IFR in Dec of 2013 and found myself in the right seat of a classic Dash-8 three months later.
I tick all the boxes except one as far as going captain...multi time.
If I had to do it all over again, if hindsight were 20-20, I'd have taken multi time more seriously, and I probably would have moved into the IFR world 5 years ago.
But all in all, no regrets, I've had tons of fun, flown all over, met lots of amazing people along the way, and even though I'm the oldest FO in the company, I'm cool because I flew floats first! Ha ha!
My first job with a fresh CPL. and 200 hours was as the chief pilot, operations manager, and maintenance control manager of a 2 plane, 703 charter/flight training unit.
I learned how to fly with this outfit, and was promised a charter pilot position when I completed my training, and pretty much the day I had my 200 hours, the former "chief of 3" left for greener pastures, and the owner said to me, well, someone's gotta' take over all the duties, might as well be you.
A couple of years later, with 800 hours and a fresh float endorsement, I headed north in a beat down $500 Honda in pursuit of a float job. I took a job as a dispatcher/night motel manager up north in order to get my foot in the door of a float operation, and 12 months later, I was sitting in the left seat of a 185 on floats.
I flew floats for a decade all over Canada, (185, -2, -3T, 208) flying hard all summer and skiing and surfing hard all winter. Eventually, I got married, had a son, bought a house, and realized that if I didn't make a move sooner than later, I would be painted into a corner with no other option other than flying floats for the rest of my career.
So I did my multi-IFR in Dec of 2013 and found myself in the right seat of a classic Dash-8 three months later.
I tick all the boxes except one as far as going captain...multi time.
If I had to do it all over again, if hindsight were 20-20, I'd have taken multi time more seriously, and I probably would have moved into the IFR world 5 years ago.
But all in all, no regrets, I've had tons of fun, flown all over, met lots of amazing people along the way, and even though I'm the oldest FO in the company, I'm cool because I flew floats first! Ha ha!
Re: How we scored our first job
This dates back to march 2010
After making a post on avcanada looking for ideas on how to find this so famous first job, a user 180pilot if i recall ( grateful to you to this day) send me a message with a suggestion to check out skydive centers, with alike to a website that lists most if not all cspa centers in Canada.
I was working at a hotel, front desk, and got the message at around 3 pm when my shift started.
it was quite at work, so I got on it.
I called every single skydive center that day, I started in Moncton and worked my way to Vancouver , ad my shift progressed, so that the time zones would work at my favor.
Not even a day later, a skydive center in the Gatineau area called me , because they needed 25 h on a 182 and i had 100h on such.
Two weeks later I got a flight with the chief pilot, and upon landing i got my job.
First year was brutal, 76 hours in 5 months.... LOTS of waiting around.
Second year made it on the navajo, and then it started being quite exiting.
Third year again on the navajo.
And my last 1/2 summer was on the caravan.
Some of the best times I ve had in my life were at that Drop zone.
3200 drops later...i still haven t jumped once, bunch of crazy people!
Why would someone wanna jump of a pretty little navajo, anyway!!
Now into the 703 world , and loving every minute of it ( less wing covers, whoever says they love putting them on, THEY LIE!)
And that s my story
Andy
After making a post on avcanada looking for ideas on how to find this so famous first job, a user 180pilot if i recall ( grateful to you to this day) send me a message with a suggestion to check out skydive centers, with alike to a website that lists most if not all cspa centers in Canada.
I was working at a hotel, front desk, and got the message at around 3 pm when my shift started.
it was quite at work, so I got on it.
I called every single skydive center that day, I started in Moncton and worked my way to Vancouver , ad my shift progressed, so that the time zones would work at my favor.
Not even a day later, a skydive center in the Gatineau area called me , because they needed 25 h on a 182 and i had 100h on such.
Two weeks later I got a flight with the chief pilot, and upon landing i got my job.
First year was brutal, 76 hours in 5 months.... LOTS of waiting around.
Second year made it on the navajo, and then it started being quite exiting.
Third year again on the navajo.
And my last 1/2 summer was on the caravan.
Some of the best times I ve had in my life were at that Drop zone.
3200 drops later...i still haven t jumped once, bunch of crazy people!
Why would someone wanna jump of a pretty little navajo, anyway!!
Now into the 703 world , and loving every minute of it ( less wing covers, whoever says they love putting them on, THEY LIE!)
And that s my story
Andy
Re: How we scored our first job
My first flying job involved working the ramp for two years.
I was hired on to the ramp with a very reputable and well established company in a decent sized city. I worked the ramp 4 days on, 4 off, making decent money with lots of opportunity for overtime. Started flying in the right seat of the Twin Otter, worked up to left seat on the Kingair, then circled back to Caravan on floats.
If you want to hate me for working the ramp, fine. I'm happy with the path I chose.
I was hired on to the ramp with a very reputable and well established company in a decent sized city. I worked the ramp 4 days on, 4 off, making decent money with lots of opportunity for overtime. Started flying in the right seat of the Twin Otter, worked up to left seat on the Kingair, then circled back to Caravan on floats.
If you want to hate me for working the ramp, fine. I'm happy with the path I chose.
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wallypilot
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1646
- Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:59 pm
- Location: The Best Coast
Re: How we scored our first job
Good to see all these stories on here.
For me, I finished CPL & MIFR and was unsuccessful at finding work. It was late May of 1998 and things were very slow at the entry level. Very little movement. The economy in general was slow. So I did an instructor rating that fall and in February, headed from the west coast through BC and Alberta looking for instructing gigs. Had a few interviews, but nothing panned out right away. Luckily a couple months later the very school I did my rating at called me to see if I could start right away. I liked instructing and liked my employer and my students and thought I would stay for a couple years. But after only 1 year, I got a call from a university friend of mine that was flying for a survey company out in ottawa. I had very little idea what this whole survey flying thing was, but he said his CP was looking for a C404 FO for survey flying. Talked to the CP and after chatting for a few minutes he said "if you can be in Ottawa by Monday, you have a job." Being out on the west coast, and in that era, short notice and one way tickets on the airlines were stupidly expensive, I lucked out and found a ticket on C3000 for $300. Flew that summer and fall, was laid off in October but with the assurance they would need me again in the spring for some big contracts coming up. So, I thoght, since this may be my last chance to do so, I moved to whistler for the winter, worked in a ski shop and was a ski bum until April. I started to get nervous about the survey company ever calling me, but then in late April, I got the call for full time permanent employment as C208 PIC and C404 PIC.
So that was Spring 2001. Made one move to another survey company about 3 years later, flew with Roar (OP) for a few years all over the world, flying Navajos and Caravans. Then in 2007 when there was a stupid amount of movement in the industry, took a job as B350 Capt for BCAS. not long after that made the move to corporate jet charter, and now in a job that I think can't be much better. Flying a corporate biz jet for a great corporation all over the world..no charter, private only.
It all really started from a friend I met in University that got me that first break to get out of instructing. You never know how a friend might help, so keep in touch with people. It's all about who you know. I'm also happy to say (and lucky I guess) that other than my one year of instructing, I never had to deal with crap wages and in every job had great working conditions.
For me, I finished CPL & MIFR and was unsuccessful at finding work. It was late May of 1998 and things were very slow at the entry level. Very little movement. The economy in general was slow. So I did an instructor rating that fall and in February, headed from the west coast through BC and Alberta looking for instructing gigs. Had a few interviews, but nothing panned out right away. Luckily a couple months later the very school I did my rating at called me to see if I could start right away. I liked instructing and liked my employer and my students and thought I would stay for a couple years. But after only 1 year, I got a call from a university friend of mine that was flying for a survey company out in ottawa. I had very little idea what this whole survey flying thing was, but he said his CP was looking for a C404 FO for survey flying. Talked to the CP and after chatting for a few minutes he said "if you can be in Ottawa by Monday, you have a job." Being out on the west coast, and in that era, short notice and one way tickets on the airlines were stupidly expensive, I lucked out and found a ticket on C3000 for $300. Flew that summer and fall, was laid off in October but with the assurance they would need me again in the spring for some big contracts coming up. So, I thoght, since this may be my last chance to do so, I moved to whistler for the winter, worked in a ski shop and was a ski bum until April. I started to get nervous about the survey company ever calling me, but then in late April, I got the call for full time permanent employment as C208 PIC and C404 PIC.
So that was Spring 2001. Made one move to another survey company about 3 years later, flew with Roar (OP) for a few years all over the world, flying Navajos and Caravans. Then in 2007 when there was a stupid amount of movement in the industry, took a job as B350 Capt for BCAS. not long after that made the move to corporate jet charter, and now in a job that I think can't be much better. Flying a corporate biz jet for a great corporation all over the world..no charter, private only.
It all really started from a friend I met in University that got me that first break to get out of instructing. You never know how a friend might help, so keep in touch with people. It's all about who you know. I'm also happy to say (and lucky I guess) that other than my one year of instructing, I never had to deal with crap wages and in every job had great working conditions.
Re: How we scored our first job
I think a lot of successful pilots like to downplay it but a big part of most of the success stories above is making a good impression on someone before they're in hiring mode. Getting out there and meeting people at all levels an pay off in ways you might never expect. Aviation is a small world and everyone seems to know everyone. The dangerous corollary to this is if you're a tool the word will get around. Quickly.
My first aviation job was as an instructor (don't worry, I actually really enjoy teaching receptive students) and while I had no previous formal contact with the school, the staff and I kind of peripherally knew each other. I went to school with a couple of their other instructors and I had bought a ton of gas from them to burn in all of the fun planes I'm lucky enough to borrow.
Not too long after I started that, I got a call out of the blue from the college I had gone to. Bear in mind I hadn't applied or anything, the CFI was just impressed by my efforts as a student I guess. Anyways, two weeks later I had moved eight hundred kilometres and started possibly one of the best jobs I've had. All good things must come to an end, though, and with changes in management and policies I just couldn't stay happy with the work I was doing there so I started looking around.
I got rejected by a whole bunch of 703s in spite of having my ATPL by then, many still saw instructing time as zero time. I was trying to come up with a plan B (still had my stable college job so no huge rush) when I got a call one morning from the chief pilot at the 793 airline at the very top of my list. Several of my past instructors were captains there and had put in the good word when they saw my resume come in. By lunch time that day I had been offered a job and accepted. Fast forward a couple years and I'm now the chief pilot asking captains what they think of folks who apply.
So yeah, networking and making good impressions seems to be key.
My first aviation job was as an instructor (don't worry, I actually really enjoy teaching receptive students) and while I had no previous formal contact with the school, the staff and I kind of peripherally knew each other. I went to school with a couple of their other instructors and I had bought a ton of gas from them to burn in all of the fun planes I'm lucky enough to borrow.
Not too long after I started that, I got a call out of the blue from the college I had gone to. Bear in mind I hadn't applied or anything, the CFI was just impressed by my efforts as a student I guess. Anyways, two weeks later I had moved eight hundred kilometres and started possibly one of the best jobs I've had. All good things must come to an end, though, and with changes in management and policies I just couldn't stay happy with the work I was doing there so I started looking around.
I got rejected by a whole bunch of 703s in spite of having my ATPL by then, many still saw instructing time as zero time. I was trying to come up with a plan B (still had my stable college job so no huge rush) when I got a call one morning from the chief pilot at the 793 airline at the very top of my list. Several of my past instructors were captains there and had put in the good word when they saw my resume come in. By lunch time that day I had been offered a job and accepted. Fast forward a couple years and I'm now the chief pilot asking captains what they think of folks who apply.
So yeah, networking and making good impressions seems to be key.
