Who is hiring FOs right now?

[stef]

For the introvert, make yourself call a bunch of places where you don't want to work. You'll be used to the conversation soon enough and can move on to where you care about.

[Sky_Conqueror]

I know its not cool to be bashing...but when I hear of instructors with no 703/704/705 operation, with only C172 time getting into groundschools flying a trubojet....it enrages me. Yes you guys will say that life isnt fair and add a ''its-not-who-you-know-but-who-you-blow'' type comment.

Its like if I was saying that I went to: a Ferrari dealership just few minutes after passing my beginners drivers license test and purchasing a Ferrari Enzo (at the time) for only 10,000$. Sounds fair? Would make a shitstorm in the media and in the professional drivers circle. Well...this is how I feel right now.

[iflyroads]

Skyregional hired at least 2 instructors direct from the Cessna 172 into the Embraer in the current groundschool. I would apply there.

Any idea how many hours they had?

[P180]

I think the hardest receptionist in the world to get through is the one lady at Transwest Air. I've succeeded in alot of places to get through but she is a tough one. It seems her new excuse of: ''He is in a meeting'' is the one she uses now.

Be thankful thats as far as you got.Save your time with that company you,ll work the ramp for years and get no where with them.

[xsbank]

For those of you who are not comfortable walking up and introducing yourself, or making cold calls, it is a skill you can learn. Teach something; get in front of a class. Go to Toastmasters; learn to make speeches. Join a political party and make cold calls.

Those who are not afraid to be outgoing may not be doing it well. It's just another skill like crosswind landings.

Join a theatre group. Organize an event. Volunteer at a Community Centre or some sort of hospital.

[cdnpilot77]

For those of you who are not comfortable walking up and introducing yourself, or making cold calls, it is a skill you can learn. Teach something; get in front of a class. Go to Toastmasters; learn to make speeches. Join a political party and make cold calls.

Those who are not afraid to be outgoing may not be doing it well. It's just another skill like crosswind landings.

Join a theatre group. Organize an event. Volunteer at a Community Centre or some sort of hospital.

All very good suggestions...I got out of construction to work a retail position to specifically work on those skills

[upintheair_]

The best thing that helped my introvertness was going travelling alone. A year on the road, sleeping in hostels when you are terrible at making conversation will do wonders. Best part is, you make a fool of yourself? Well, you're leaving in a few days anyways and you'll never see said people again.

[fruitloops]

I know its not cool to be bashing...but when I hear of instructors with no 703/704/705 operation, with only C172 time getting into groundschools flying a trubojet....it enrages me. Yes you guys will say that life isnt fair and add a ''its-not-who-you-know-but-who-you-blow'' type comment.

Its like if I was saying that I went to: a Ferrari dealership just few minutes after passing my beginners drivers license test and purchasing a Ferrari Enzo (at the time) for only 10,000$. Sounds fair? Would make a shitstorm in the media and in the professional drivers circle. Well...this is how I feel right now.

I find that very hard to believe that someone went directly from 172 to FO EMB 175. They must have been instructing multi for quite a few hours as well. Sure they can be a little lenient to some degree but I call BS - A friend joined them this summer as an FO with >1,000 multi and over 3000 TT.

Here's the past requirements for the 175 FO post - so it's possible but I just doubt it.
"Applicants must have a Commercial Pilot License with a minimum of 1500 total flying hours. ATPL written exams or equivalent are required. Preference given to those pilots who have an aviation college diploma/degree, EFIS/FMS experience or P.I.C experience on high performance multi engine aircraft."

[xsbank]

You guys have to realize that companies advertise with minima in order to limit the sheer volume of resumes they get. None of these conditions need apply if they want to change them, either globally for everyone or specifically for an individual. That is the reason for Xsbank's Number One Rule of Job Hunting: "Apply for every job you want not just the ones you think you are qualified for."

I have a story: once when I was a Type Rating Instructor, my company gave out scholarships to Women in Aviation. The girl that won that year had flown nothing more complex than a Cirrus.

She got a Challenger 604 Type Rating. I taught her, she worked very hard, had some initial trouble with V1 cuts but sailed through her ride. She left us and got her first job with KFC on a 601, which was ironic as she then had to do a 601 type, it's not the same. All paid by KFC.

There is no "fair," no "level playing field" or any other touchy-feely rule for getting a job. It's capricious, unfair and generally just bizarre. So don't waste your time fussing about this stuff, just get your own ducks in a row and stay positive. The fastest way to get a PFO is a bad attitude.

[AirMail]

Perhaps Sky is getting desperate? They have a big need for pilots. I wouldn't be surprised seeing the need for 250 hr guys in the near future. Perhaps if pay and conditions improved, they'd get more experienced guys? Nah, in aviation, it's all about the tin, not the t&c's

[fruitloops]

You guys have to realize that companies advertise with minima in order to limit the sheer volume of resumes they get. None of these conditions need apply if they want to change them, either globally for everyone or specifically for an individual. That is the reason for Xsbank's Number One Rule of Job Hunting: "Apply for every job you want not just the ones you think you are qualified for."

I have a story: once when I was a Type Rating Instructor, my company gave out scholarships to Women in Aviation. The girl that won that year had flown nothing more complex than a Cirrus.

She got a Challenger 604 Type Rating. I taught her, she worked very hard, had some initial trouble with V1 cuts but sailed through her ride. She left us and got her first job with KFC on a 601, which was ironic as she then had to do a 601 type, it's not the same. All paid by KFC.

There is no "fair," no "level playing field" or any other touchy-feely rule for getting a job. It's capricious, unfair and generally just bizarre. So don't waste your time fussing about this stuff, just get your own ducks in a row and stay positive. The fastest way to get a PFO is a bad attitude.

Yeah I hear ya and it happens in every industry so why not in aviation too

When you are messing with people's lives > if I owned Sky Reg that the former C152-172 pilot will fly for and an incident occurs that makes the news headlines with respect to that pilot in the cockpit - and the media gets a hold of that kind of experience - that company could have a lot of questions to answer and probably a few law suits as well, regardless of the captain's credentials. It's all fine until stuff happens!

[chedda]

I find that very hard to believe that someone went directly from 172 to FO EMB 175.

That's standard procedure for pretty much all pilots down in the US. 1000h of 172 time and 20ish multi and you're pretty much guaranteed a CRJ or ERJ job. Mostly ERJ 145 but a lot go right into the 175 as well. SkyWest, Compass, ExpressJet and Endeavor are all fighting over 1000 hour Cessna pilots. I wish it were that easy up here.

[esp803]

I know its not cool to be bashing...but when I hear of instructors with no 703/704/705 operation, with only C172 time getting into groundschools flying a trubojet....it enrages me. Yes you guys will say that life isnt fair and add a ''its-not-who-you-know-but-who-you-blow'' type comment.

Its like if I was saying that I went to: a Ferrari dealership just few minutes after passing my beginners drivers license test and purchasing a Ferrari Enzo (at the time) for only 10,000$. Sounds fair? Would make a shitstorm in the media and in the professional drivers circle. Well...this is how I feel right now.

Didn't you get your first job flying an Airbus in the Philippines with zero experience? There is nothing special about flying a different type of engine, hell I'd say a single radial is a lot more challenging than a twin turbojet. As for your Ferrari comment, I've had rampies with ppls that I would feel safer checking out then a lot of 3000hr pilots... Some people have it, some don't, to paint all instructors or all 703/4/5 pilots with the sake brush is beyond ludicrous.

E

[loopa]

I know its not cool to be bashing...but when I hear of instructors with no 703/704/705 operation, with only C172 time getting into groundschools flying a trubojet....it enrages me. Yes you guys will say that life isnt fair and add a ''its-not-who-you-know-but-who-you-blow'' type comment. Because the requirements don't indicate your relative exp to doing a good job at the airline stage.

Its like if I was saying that I went to: a Ferrari dealership just few minutes after passing my beginners drivers license test and purchasing a Ferrari Enzo (at the time) for only 10,000$. Sounds fair? Would make a shitstorm in the media and in the professional drivers circle. Well...this is how I feel right now.

Didn't you get your first job flying an Airbus in the Philippines with zero experience? There is nothing special about flying a different type of engine, hell I'd say a single radial is a lot more challenging than a twin turbojet. As for your Ferrari comment, I've had rampies with ppls that I would feel safer checking out then a lot of 3000hr pilots... Some people have it, some don't, to paint all instructors or all 703/4/5 pilots with the sake brush is beyond ludicrous.

E

Sky, I don't think the issue is 172 exp into an airliner jet. I think the issue is in the Canadian system, we aren't brought up to a standard where the majority are competent in an airliner at the experience level of a 172 pilot. Exceptions do exist though. I think anyone can admit that getting a pilot's license in Canada is pretty easy. So when there's no filter right from the get go, a lot of idiots slip through the cracks. Combine that with a generic lazy and money-saving approach applied by most airlines training department (esp in Canada), you get the companies posting for crazy requirements that really don't make that much sense.

For example, the amount of experience a 703/704 pilot brings to a 705 game is nice, but not required. The 172 pilot could completely bypass the 703/704 world and go into a good 705 program with an excellent training program that spits out competence. Couple that with experience on the line and you have a very valuable asset in your flight deck.

The reason companies want to see 172-king air fo-captain, 1900 fo-captain, and the likes is because they want the weeding out process to occur in the lower stages of the ladder before they even get a chance to touch an airliner; and don't kid yourselves, the process above builds character and normally should develop your attitude. But it's interesting how more often than not it does the opposite and people get bitter in the process. Meanwhile if you trained properly from hour 0, and put these properly trained cadets into an airliner, they turn out to be very sharp and competent pilot's and future commanders. Mind you, they won't stand a chance to survive operating a twin otter up north, but in the same argument, neither would a twin otter's mindset in the airline stage. Why do you think so many bush guys struggle to get the "bush" out of the "airline" mindset. I can name at least 10 people in my career thus far that came in as direct entry captain into the 705 world with nothing but bush-ifr mpic of which 80% of them got demoted to an F/O at some point in their 705 career. The best example of this was when one of these DEC's got demoted, and an internal promotion from F/O occurred. And now what once was a captain is sitting right seat to a well deserved ex-f/o doing her commander job very well because she had observed, learned, and developed in the 705 first officer seat.

So don't fool yourselves, the WJ's and AC's that want "solid" experience aren't actually looking for your experience flying a 704 machine, it's to see if your attitude is what has kept you alive or not. Good attitude leads to good skill. So I have no doubt Sky Regional has picked up some competent ex-instructors with good attitudes (the exception) whom are doing extremely well in the right seat of that Embraer - probably loving the job more so than your ex 1900 captain whom is going to start bitching in 6 months about why all their mpic isn't granting them a quick upgrade.

[justwanttofly]

Well said loopa!

[esp803]

Very well said.

[dunkafa]

Skyregional hired at least 2 instructors into the Embraer in the current groundschool. I would apply there.

I have close to 3000h almost all twin turbine and didnt even get a call....go figure lol

[upintheair_]

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[aviatrix444]

Anyone know how soft that 500 hrs minimum is for FO's?

[upintheair_]

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