Companies repeatedly posting

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final28
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Companies repeatedly posting

#1 Post by final28 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:14 am

Why are so many companies posting the same ad for pilots every month or two?

Word is that at least some of them get many qualified applicants, as in more hours than they ask for.
Do these qualified pilots decline offers, are so many others leaving, what is going on?
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#2 Post by co-joe » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:42 am

Partly the industry movement is at an unprecedented pace, and with respect to some companies, their hiring processes are lengthy and very time consuming so if the don't already have candidates in the pipe they cant just call and say start tomorrow. Things like sim evals and those retarded cog tests take a long time to set up. lastly they pay peanuts so they aren't getting overrun with applicants anymore.
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#3 Post by Tanker299 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:54 am

I would venture that some of these places may be paying well and get people in the door. However they probably still have a lot of old school mentalities in the way they treat people and or don't give the quality of life people are looking for. Money is not the be all and end all, it's having a life outside of aviation that is important to me.
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#4 Post by Zaibatsu » Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:08 pm

I have no idea.

I've applied to several of those places with far more than the required hours. Pasco, CMA, Carson, Westwind, PAL, Georgian, and haven't heard a thing from them.

I think maybe some HR depts are refusing to believe that the days of pilots coming with ratings and time on type are over. I took a job with a smaller operator with similar equipment as above within days of applying.
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#5 Post by Mercator » Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:30 pm

To me it looks like high time flight instructors are hit hardest, as Jazz and Encore won't hire them without atleast 200-300 plus multi engine pic (G1000 type of experience), and smaller operators fear they will scoot to the airlines in a couple of years.
:roll:
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#6 Post by yhz41 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:57 pm

Yet jazz will hire 250 hour pilots straight out of college with little to no real flying experience.
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final28
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#7 Post by final28 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:58 am

Take PASCO for example, they posted for both captains and F/Os on Feb 20, March 3 and again March 6 (today)???
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#8 Post by Rowdy » Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:08 pm

final28 wrote:Take PASCO for example, they posted for both captains and F/Os on Feb 20, March 3 and again March 6 (today)???
It could be that they are simply being pro active in their sourcing of crews for the upcoming spring and summer season. Getting the post to the top of the forums :wink: I have yet to hear anything negative about Pasco, in my many years of operating on the coast.

I will say though, that there are many operators that are still hiding in the dark ages and are completely baffled by the lack of candidates. Aviation in Canada has been slow to react to all of this movement.
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#9 Post by AirMail » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:51 am

I'm sure if remuneration were to rise significantly they wouldn't be so desperate nor at a loss. If they can't adapt like any good business they don't deserve to be around.
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#10 Post by HansDietrich » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:34 am

Mercator wrote:To me it looks like high time flight instructors are hit hardest, as Jazz and Encore won't hire them without atleast 200-300 plus multi engine pic (G1000 type of experience), and smaller operators fear they will scoot to the airlines in a couple of years.
:roll:
Well, that's probably because Flight Instructing experience is not very relevant to the airlines. What will 2000 hrs as a VFR flight instructor bring? You might as well be a 200 hr pilot. I know I'm going to get roasted for this, but instructing experience is great if you plan a career as a flight instructor, which is a very respectable choice (although, unfortunately, not very well paid)

Good luck to everyone out there.
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#11 Post by goingnowherefast » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:06 am

Instructors are much more easily trained than a 200hr pilot. They also learn by themselves much better and generally require less hand holding. This also means they upgrade quicker. If the operator is saying this to themself, I bet an instructor is about to get a job "I need a captain in about 6 months, but none of my internal guys are going to be ready for the spot. If I hire this 1500hr instructor I won't need a direct entry captain".

Most pilots run off to a regional airline once they get some m-pic regardless, doesn't matter where they started at.

The smart operators know this and plan for it in various ways. They are generally fun companies to work for. With no secrets or bs between pilots and management. The not so smart companies tighten up their bonds.
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#12 Post by trey kule » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:47 pm

Instructors are much more easily trained than a 200hr pilot. They also learn by themselves much better and generally require less hand holding.

That is a very bold statement. On what facts are you basing it on?

Our company experience is almost exactly the opposite.

Some of the colleges turn out a good fresh CPL pilot with the right attitude.
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#13 Post by thepriceisright » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:57 pm

trey kule wrote:
Instructors are much more easily trained than a 200hr pilot. They also learn by themselves much better and generally require less hand holding.

That is a very bold statement. On what facts are you basing it on?

Our company experience is almost exactly the opposite.

Some of the colleges turn out a good fresh CPL pilot with the right attitude.
Maybe the fact that s/he is an instructor? Haha. I agree with you trey kule.
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#14 Post by altiplano » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:52 am

Too funny...

"I better hire this 1000 hour Cessna circuit jockey now because I need a Captain on the Beechcraft this summer... All the 4000&5000 hour cojoes with 2 years on type who know the operation and routes are losers."
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#15 Post by goingnowherefast » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:53 pm

Haha. All the 2 year FOs with 4000hrs on type don't exist anymore. What job market are you living in?

I'm guessing we've hired different types of instructors. Hire based on personality, attitude and willingness to learn. Provided they meet the minimum hours, the actual number is largely trivial in comparison.

And no, I'm not an instructor.
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#16 Post by altiplano » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:54 pm

I'm not living in any job market... I'm not in the market for a job...

I'd still take the guy with 1500 right seat in a King Air over the guy with 1500 right seat in a Cessna for my Beech Captain... 99 times out of 100.

You mention personality, attitude, etc... that has nothing to do with being an instructor and everything to do with the human condition wherever you come from...
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#17 Post by goingnowherefast » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:56 am

altiplano wrote:You mention personality, attitude, etc... that has nothing to do with being an instructor and everything to do with the human condition wherever you come from...
Exactly! I don't care if you're an instructor or have 4000TT on the BE20. If you have a bad attitude, you won't get hired.

What seems to be forgotten here is that if there was an FO to upgrade, they wouldn't advertise for captains. This part of the conversation was pretexted when I said:
goingnowherefast wrote:If the operator is saying this to themself, I bet an instructor is about to get a job "I need a captain in about 6 months, but none of my internal guys are going to be ready for the spot. If I hire this 1500hr instructor I won't need a direct entry captain".
You have no FOs ready for the upgrade, so you hire another FO you expect to be ready to upgrade when you need the captain.
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#18 Post by altiplano » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:34 am

Umm okay whatever...

I still doubt it's the 1500 hour instructor getting the call for direct left seat on the Beech... Maybe I'm outta touch.
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#19 Post by goingnowherefast » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:39 pm

I don't get you. Please take the time to read what I've said before you reply. I've never said an instructor would get DEC. An instructor could simply get an FO spot for a quick upgrade if there are no internal FOs going to be ready when the need is expected.

If you aren't going to bother reading the posts, don't make a fool of yourself and reply.
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#20 Post by Docbrad » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:57 pm

Well, as a 1000+hr instructor, where would you suggest I look for a job?
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#21 Post by '97 Tercel » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:53 pm

I see the weekly Wasaya ad is out again...
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#22 Post by Zaibatsu » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:04 pm

I'm an instructor and I got a job on a King Air, quick advancement to the left seat. I had a bunch of non instruction time too and MPIC, but no turbine experience. Of course, coming on with an ATPL thanks to my instructor years makes it a lot easier for those contract requirements. Where's the 1500 hour gear and flaps operator going to be? Stuck as an FO because he can't afford the 172 time to bang off his night PIC and out of luck for PICUS since our machines don't fly late.
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#23 Post by HansDietrich » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:47 pm

Zaibatsu wrote:I'm an instructor and I got a job on a King Air, quick advancement to the left seat. I had a bunch of non instruction time too and MPIC, but no turbine experience. Of course, coming on with an ATPL thanks to my instructor years makes it a lot easier for those contract requirements. Where's the 1500 hour gear and flaps operator going to be? Stuck as an FO because he can't afford the 172 time to bang off his night PIC and out of luck for PICUS since our machines don't fly late.
"Where's the 1500 hour gear and flap operator going to be?"

Are you for real?!?! That 1500 hr King Air F/O is way more experienced than you, flying circuits VFR. Get lost you looser! Is this how you speak of your fellow aviators? You are the perfect example of why most 703/704 operators don't want to hire instructors. Some of you (thankfully on only SOME) think you're "God's gift to aviation"...

Your 1500 hrs instructing means absolutely sh*t, unless you want to move up in the instructing world. I think it's a disgrace that Canada gives ATPLs to individuals with 1500 hrs PIC flying circuits and slow flight. ATPL = AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT LICENSE. There is nothing "AIRLINE" in a single engine piston.

Oh, if I saw you at a bar, I'd tell you things I would never be allowed on this site.

Shameful comments. I hope you lose your medical you worthless worm!
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#24 Post by FOD_Vacuum » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:57 pm

This popcorn tastes pretty good...sorry, I had to say it. These comments remind me of the kind of conversations that me and my ex had. For real though, is this how the new generation of pilots are talking these days? IMHO it is and should be up to the operator to decide who fits the job best based on their operational needs. Its a combination of luck, the right atittude, the right place at the right time with a fair amount of legal experience. There really is no "top" guy whether it is an instructor or FO. That is what interviews are for.
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Re: Companies repeatedly posting

#25 Post by HansDietrich » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:18 pm

FOD_Vacuum wrote:This popcorn tastes pretty good...sorry, I had to say it. These comments remind me of the kind of conversations that me and my ex had. For real though, is this how the new generation of pilots are talking these days? IMHO it is and should be up to the operator to decide who fits the job best based on their operational needs. Its a combination of luck, the right atittude, the right place at the right time with a fair amount of legal experience. There really is no "top" guy whether it is an instructor or FO. That is what interviews are for.
After spending years "paying my dues" and flying up North, comments such as "Flap and Gear Operator" really get me started. I know they should not be, but it's something that I can not really tolerate. It's insulting to the thousands of Northern pilots that worked (and work) their butts off.
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