Training bonds

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flyyyc1
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Training bonds

#1 Post by flyyyc1 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:06 am

Can anyone advise if you sign a bond who is on the hook if you should fail any of the training such as the PPC etc?
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Ki-ll
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Re: Training bonds

#2 Post by Ki-ll » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:17 am

flyyyc1 wrote:Can anyone advise if you sign a bond who is on the hook if you should fail any of the training such as the PPC etc?
A bond is a contract so the devil is in the details, in specifics of how the bond letter is worded.
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Alcoholism
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Re: Training bonds

#3 Post by Alcoholism » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:35 am

If it's an initial PPC you didn't receive the type rating which is the point to bonds. Recurrents you're more than likely on the hook. Again like above it's in the details as each company is different on how they enforce it.
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jg24
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Re: Training bonds

#4 Post by jg24 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:47 am

flyyyc1 wrote:Can anyone advise if you sign a bond who is on the hook if you should fail any of the training such as the PPC etc?
That is usually covered in the contract that you and the employer sign upon starting training. Read it all carefully so you know what you're getting yourself into.
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JBI
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Re: Training bonds

#5 Post by JBI » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:04 am

Alcoholism wrote:If it's an initial PPC you didn't receive the type rating which is the point to bonds. Recurrents you're more than likely on the hook. Again like above it's in the details as each company is different on how they enforce it.
Sort of, but maybe not: you still got the benefit of the training which is what the company paid out. Agreed though, it really depends on what is written in the bond. If it's silent on what happens if a candidate fails a ride, courts would look at what the details of the contract allude to. If it's poorly worded (from the company's perspective), it is up to the company to show that it covers situations where a candidate fails a ride as the company drafted the contract.

Nonetheless, as the pilot, I would not assume that the bond is invalid. Best to work on an equitable solution for everyone.
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Spirit
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Re: Training bonds

#6 Post by Spirit » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:11 pm

They can most certainly come after you because they did provide you with training (often terrible training at many 703's) I guess it all depends how things are worded in the agreement.

Best is to not sign one of those damn things. If every pilot would just stop signing them, they wouldn't exist.

Simple right?
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lownslow
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Re: Training bonds

#7 Post by lownslow » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:21 pm

Spirit wrote:If every pilot would just stop signing them, they wouldn't exist.
Careful what you wish for, whatever replaces a pilot bond has the potential to be worse.
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Re: Training bonds

#8 Post by Cat Driver » Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:03 pm

A fair, properly worded training bond protects both parties.
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Black_Tusk
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Re: Training bonds

#9 Post by Black_Tusk » Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:46 pm

lownslow wrote:
Spirit wrote:If every pilot would just stop signing them, they wouldn't exist.
Careful what you wish for, whatever replaces a pilot bond has the potential to be worse.
Like... no bond?
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lownslow
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Re: Training bonds

#10 Post by lownslow » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:22 pm

Black_Tusk wrote:
lownslow wrote:
Spirit wrote:If every pilot would just stop signing them, they wouldn't exist.
Careful what you wish for, whatever replaces a pilot bond has the potential to be worse.
Like... no bond?
I had something longer for this (that's what he said?) but I'll boil it down. Training is expensive AF. It is, and there's no changing that. The company shells out for it and they'd like to see their pilots stay long enough to get a reasonable return on their investment.

Without a bond, they can either reduce training costs by insisting everyone must have a valid PPC prior to hire, or they find another way to ensure retention without substantially raising costs (ie. wages).
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porcsord
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Re: Training bonds

#11 Post by porcsord » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:56 pm

Pardon the assumptions, but I do recall Carsons bond has you owing the money should you fail the ride and are terminated.

Here's a good read for you:

https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc/2 ... ultIndex=1


edited to add relevant section, for those to lazy to read the whole thing
j) The Trainee agrees that in the event the Trainee has commenced training and does not complete training or fails the PPC or line indoctrination, the full amount of the Training Bond shall become due and payable upon 14 calendar days after failure, unless the parties agree otherwise, in writing.
If you are not with Carson, then read your bond, but I suspect unless it says "the money is owed upon the SUCCESSFUL complete of training" you are probably on the hook for it.
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