Ggn recruiter ad.

[gtanorth]

The ad's and new position are due to their new agreement with Air Canada. Increased flow to AC means the crank gets turned faster than ever

Flow? Since when do any of the AC Express carriers have flow?

Some of the American feeders have flow. No such thing here.

Get your carrot-dangling bullshit out of here.

I think you mean flow through agreement. That’s “flow THROUGH”

[HansDietrich]

If the TTC can pay a bus driver 65K a year (after 24 months of service), so can an airline. Stop this ridiculous "They don't have the money" commentary. Yes they do! Planes are full and are making a record profit.

[leftoftrack]

Encore has flow through. If your ok with ggn wages why not go where there is flow?

[gtanorth]

Encore has flow through. If your ok with ggn wages why not go where there is flow?

That would be a very short term view, unless of course, you want to work for wJ then that is 100% what you should do. If you want to work for AC then get to an express partner ----- any express partner.

[FL007]

Encore has flow through. If your ok with ggn wages why not go where there is flow?

That would be a very short term view, unless of course, you want to work for wJ then that is 100% what you should do. If you want to work for AC then get to an express partner ----- any express partner.

Not as accurate now, if someone has any time I personally think Encore is the way to go, the minute you get on the PML you put yourself behind thousands of other pilots in line for an interview, especially after this year of hiring at, say, Jazz, and still have the risk of a PFO which many are receiving now. Meanwhile, at Encore, rack up that 705 time, apply to AC as an external applicant, worst case scenario you get PFO'd and guaranteed flow to WJ mainline, best case AC hires one of their competitor's pilots.

GGN 1900 ops are a joke, 27-28k to fly a 1900 in GTA? It's bringing the industry down and I resent pilots accepting these jobs, then changing their facebook status to "Pilot at AC Express". I know plenty of other operators flying 1900s for 37-45K first year, and Captains in the 60-100k range, and will probably stay there for the rest of their lives.

[Roger1989]

Encore has flow through. If your ok with ggn wages why not go where there is flow?

That would be a very short term view, unless of course, you want to work for wJ then that is 100% what you should do. If you want to work for AC then get to an express partner ----- any express partner.

Not as accurate now, if someone has any time I personally think Encore is the way to go, the minute you get on the PML you put yourself behind thousands of other pilots in line for an interview, especially after this year of hiring at, say, Jazz, and still have the risk of a PFO which many are receiving now. Meanwhile, at Encore, rack up that 705 time, apply to AC as an external applicant, worst case scenario you get PFO'd and guaranteed flow to WJ mainline, best case AC hires one of their competitor's pilots.

GGN 1900 ops are a joke, 27-28k to fly a 1900 in GTA? It's bringing the industry down and I resent pilots accepting these jobs, then changing their facebook status to "Pilot at AC Express". I know plenty of other operators flying 1900s for 37-45K first year, and Captains in the 60-100k range, and will probably stay there for the rest of their lives.

This is really the bottom line. Encore provides best option for a future.

[HansDietrich]

GGN 1900 ops are a joke, 27-28k to fly a 1900 in GTA? It's bringing the industry down and I resent pilots accepting these jobs, then changing their facebook status to "Pilot at AC Express". I know plenty of other operators flying 1900s for 37-45K first year, and Captains in the 60-100k range, and will probably stay there for the rest of their lives.

And what exactly have YOU done to help these pilots out? Have you personally offered them a job elsewhere, flying an aircraft they qualify for, while offering them a much better salary?

[FL007]

GGN 1900 ops are a joke, 27-28k to fly a 1900 in GTA? It's bringing the industry down and I resent pilots accepting these jobs, then changing their facebook status to "Pilot at AC Express". I know plenty of other operators flying 1900s for 37-45K first year, and Captains in the 60-100k range, and will probably stay there for the rest of their lives.

And what exactly have YOU done to help these pilots out? Have you personally offered them a job elsewhere, flying an aircraft they qualify for, while offering them a much better salary?

Pardon me? Now it's my fault for not offering them a job elsewhere for more money? Get a grip.. They were already making a much better salary at their 703, before they accepted a job at ggn I guarantee it.

I make the choice to value my skills and refuse to work for absolutely abysmal wawcon.

Do you promote companies that offer subpar wage and work conditions? Considering how upset you are on the classic, imagine how bitter you would be flying the same routes you do for half the wage and much worse schedule, equipment, etc.

Most everyone did the 703/4 life, we all know how bad we wanted to get out, including the many guys/gals I know who applied to each express carrier just to get out and accepted the first job offer that was given to them (most often ggn 1900) only to be called a month later at jazz/encore.

For anyone in this position, unless you get a pfo where you want to go, think of the longer term goal, don't accept the first job you're offered just to leave your 703 job, you're most likely building multi time and you will eventually get a call by a company that values your skills more than ggn.

[HansDietrich]

GGN 1900 ops are a joke, 27-28k to fly a 1900 in GTA? It's bringing the industry down and I resent pilots accepting these jobs, then changing their facebook status to "Pilot at AC Express". I know plenty of other operators flying 1900s for 37-45K first year, and Captains in the 60-100k range, and will probably stay there for the rest of their lives.

And what exactly have YOU done to help these pilots out? Have you personally offered them a job elsewhere, flying an aircraft they qualify for, while offering them a much better salary?

Pardon me? Now it's my fault for not offering them a job elsewhere for more money? Get a grip.. They were already making a much better salary at their 703, before they accepted a job at ggn I guarantee it.

I make the choice to value my skills and refuse to work for absolutely abysmal wawcon.

Do you promote companies that offer subpar wage and work conditions? Considering how upset you are on the classic, imagine how bitter you would be flying the same routes you do for half the wage and much worse schedule, equipment, etc.

Most everyone did the 703/4 life, we all know how bad we wanted to get out, including the many guys/gals I know who applied to each express carrier just to get out and accepted the first job offer that was given to them (most often ggn 1900) only to be called a month later at jazz/encore.

For anyone in this position, unless you get a pfo where you want to go, think of the longer term goal, don't accept the first job you're offered just to leave your 703 job, you're most likely building multi time and you will eventually get a call by a company that values your skills more than ggn.

If we're going to blame someone, let's blame the company, not the pilots that probably took that job, because they had very few choices. Rip on GGN all you want. I think they're scum, but don't bash some poor 25 year old for being an F/O on the 1900 at GGN.

[FL007]

And what exactly have YOU done to help these pilots out? Have you personally offered them a job elsewhere, flying an aircraft they qualify for, while offering them a much better salary?

Pardon me? Now it's my fault for not offering them a job elsewhere for more money? Get a grip.. They were already making a much better salary at their 703, before they accepted a job at ggn I guarantee it.

I make the choice to value my skills and refuse to work for absolutely abysmal wawcon.

Do you promote companies that offer subpar wage and work conditions? Considering how upset you are on the classic, imagine how bitter you would be flying the same routes you do for half the wage and much worse schedule, equipment, etc.

Most everyone did the 703/4 life, we all know how bad we wanted to get out, including the many guys/gals I know who applied to each express carrier just to get out and accepted the first job offer that was given to them (most often ggn 1900) only to be called a month later at jazz/encore.

For anyone in this position, unless you get a pfo where you want to go, think of the longer term goal, don't accept the first job you're offered just to leave your 703 job, you're most likely building multi time and you will eventually get a call by a company that values your skills more than ggn.

If we're going to blame someone, let's blame the company, not the pilots that probably took that job, because they had very few choices. Rip on GGN all you want. I think they're scum, but don't bash some poor 25 year old for being an F/O on the 1900 at GGN.

25 or not nobody has "very few choices" these days, maybe at 500hrs they do, but what would happen if nobody applied to these jobs? Would ggn improve wage and working conditions? Absolutely.

[Roger1989]

It will also be someone who is familiar with hiring temporary foreign workers.
Here's an idea....if you actually provide a good wage and decent working conditions, you wouldn't need to work so hard to find employees that will stick around. Amazing how times have changed in the last few years. Also amazing how some companies refuse to recognize it!

Well put. As if you need a recruiter??? It’s aleays been a last resort for any pilot anyway. Bon chance

[AvifiskAlly]

It will also be someone who is familiar with hiring temporary foreign workers.
Here's an idea....if you actually provide a good wage and decent working conditions, you wouldn't need to work so hard to find employees that will stick around. Amazing how times have changed in the last few years. Also amazing how some companies refuse to recognize it!

Well put. As if you need a recruiter??? It’s aleays been a last resort for any pilot anyway. Bon chance

I’m new to this but I didn’t think it would be so easy. Copy my same post 3 times and all applicable.


Here is the story of Georgian. Most (not all but most) pilots go to GGN to work for AC. Those who are successful achieving that goal generally grow beyond the need to post on Av Canada.

Some who are not successful have great backup plans and move on quickly to Sunwing or some other “second choice” employer, most of them accept that with a cup half full view and again grow beyond the need to post on Av Canada.

A minority of those pilots want to blame someone for not going to AC so they look externally instead of internally and blame either GGN, the PMA or AC and they find comfort in the friends they make on Av Canada with the other cup half empty people.

Then you have what the rest of us call “The Av Canada Core”. For GGN that is made up of (1) people that didn’t get hired (2) people that failed out or got fired (3) people that didn’t get upgraded (4) people that didn’t get hired by AC or by their backup plan (4) Pilots that truly ligetimetly didn’t like their experience for whatever reason but are bitter about it (5) pilots at Jazz that think GGN is to blame for their regression contract vs. the hay days of cost plus (6) pilots that just cant move past the fact that they did not achieve what they set out to do and don’t have an ability to look at themselves and instead blame someone else. All of these posters find likeminded people on Av Canada and it makes them feel good to have people agree with them.

This is what you need to keep in mind when taking employment advice about any company on Av Canada. It can be a great source of info for some things but the posters represent a very very very small portion of the pilot population, the people that are happy and going about life don’t post here often, at least not often enough to give the proper scale to any discussed topic related to employment.

Don’t get me wrong there has been a lot of great info on this site and a lot of great discussions but the proportionality is always, 100% of the time wrong. That does not make the information invalid just keep in mind the views represent those of a very small proportion of any group, good or bad, pro or con


Roger 1989. You are obviously a very bitter person about something. See above

[goingnowherefast]

Roger 1989 is correct in my experience. Everybody I know at ggn is there because Jazz/Encore/Sky/other all turned them down. None of them are bitter and ranting avcanada either. They're either patiently waiting for AC, or waiting for the bond to expire so they can apply to Jazz/Encore/Sky/other again. They all know their job sucks, they know ggn is no fun and their exit plan speed is based on their tolerance.

And no, I don't work for Jazz or ggn. Never have and not planning to either.

[gtanorth]

Roger 1989 is correct in my experience. Everybody I know at ggn is there because Jazz/Encore/Sky/other all turned them down. None of them are bitter and ranting avcanada either. They're either patiently waiting for AC, or waiting for the bond to expire so they can apply to Jazz/Encore/Sky/other again. They all know their job sucks, they know ggn is no fun and their exit plan speed is based on their tolerance.

And no, I don't work for Jazz or ggn. Never have and not planning to either.

I doubt anyone is going to pass up on their chance to get to AC to go to Jazz or Sky. Given your pasta posts I’d suggest your one of the people that perhaps didn’t get hired. Your posts seem pretty odd for someone with no skin in the game. Hummmmmm

[goingnowherefast]

I do have skin in the game. I care about my friends and have concern for their wellbeing. Given their experiences, I have no interest in working for any of the regionals though, especially ggn

[gtanorth]

I do have skin in the game. I care about my friends and have concern for their wellbeing. Given their experiences, I have no interest in working for any of the regionals though, especially ggn

Just think you should have at least some facts correct before pontificating a bunch of bs. According to your “claim” a pilot that has been turned down by jazz and sky goes to agl as a last resort and then AC gladly picks them up? Come up with some better Georgian bashing, at least something believable.

[iflyroads]

I do have skin in the game. I care about my friends and have concern for their wellbeing. Given their experiences, I have no interest in working for any of the regionals though, especially ggn

Just think you should have at least some facts correct before pontificating a bunch of bs. According to your “claim” a pilot that has been turned down by jazz and sky goes to agl as a last resort and then AC gladly picks them up? Come up with some better Georgian bashing, at least something believable.

My understand from his/her post was that there are candidates that have no significant flying experience (ex. 800TT with little to no multi) jazz, sky, encore, might have turned them down for that experience, so they applied to ggn and got in. Once they build up more exp with ggn on the Beech or RJ they now have enough multi airline exp to apply back to jazz, sky, encore should they choose too, or wait it out for AC.

From a few friends who have worked or work there who had the above situation the majority opted to apply back to another regional rather than wait for the PML to work out. A few are soon to be called by another regional.

[gtanorth]

I do have skin in the game. I care about my friends and have concern for their wellbeing. Given their experiences, I have no interest in working for any of the regionals though, especially ggn

Just think you should have at least some facts correct before pontificating a bunch of bs. According to your “claim” a pilot that has been turned down by jazz and sky goes to agl as a last resort and then AC gladly picks them up? Come up with some better Georgian bashing, at least something believable.

My understand from his/her post was that there are candidates that have no significant flying experience (ex. 800TT with little to no multi) jazz, sky, encore, might have turned them down for that experience, so they applied to ggn and got in. Once they build up more exp with ggn on the Beech or RJ they now have enough multi airline exp to apply back to jazz, sky, encore should they choose too, or wait it out for AC.

From a few friends who have worked or work there who had the above situation the majority opted to apply back to another regional rather than wait for the PML to work out. A few are soon to be called by another regional.

Maybe, seems odd to give up your shot at AC to settle for a regional job unless you got a pfo. I think only a couple of handful of guys have gone to jazz since the Pml and maybe 2 Guys to Sky. That’s over 3 years. All of the ones that I know that went to jazz were after the old PFO except a couple that didn’t get a capt spot at ggn. The only group would be 2-3 Guys stuck on the beech. But I’m sure your scenario has happened as well.

Hey, to each their own. Certainly can’t say it doesn’t happen but I can say it would be very rare. Let me put it this why. Less Guys to jazz in three years that didn’t first get PFO from AC than Guys to AC this month from Georgian.

[AvifiskAlly]

I do have skin in the game. I care about my friends and have concern for their wellbeing. Given their experiences, I have no interest in working for any of the regionals though, especially ggn

Just think you should have at least some facts correct before pontificating a bunch of bs. According to your “claim” a pilot that has been turned down by jazz and sky goes to agl as a last resort and then AC gladly picks them up? Come up with some better Georgian bashing, at least something believable.

My understand from his/her post was that there are candidates that have no significant flying experience (ex. 800TT with little to no multi) jazz, sky, encore, might have turned them down for that experience, so they applied to ggn and got in. Once they build up more exp with ggn on the Beech or RJ they now have enough multi airline exp to apply back to jazz, sky, encore should they choose too, or wait it out for AC.

From a few friends who have worked or work there who had the above situation the majority opted to apply back to another regional rather than wait for the PML to work out. A few are soon to be called by another regional.

Not many if any with a university degree or college diploma went to Jazz before their shot on the PML. Sky picked up none I know that 100% for certain. Encore - yup I hear that is pretty popular for those that like teal

[LongPaws]

According to my former roommate who works there and published by the company

in 2017 GGN lost 112 pilots, of which only 17 went to AC. The rest went to Jazz, encore/WJ, SW, Transat, corporate etc...


The majority left BEFORE they received a PFO. Once their co-workers started getting PFOs, they figured out that the carrot is rotten and there is no point staying. Currently I hear the PFO rate has slowed down, and management has renegotiated a new PML deal with AC. Majority of the candidates going from the RJ to AC, very few from the beech. Management is still limiting movement from the Beech to the RJ.

Supposedly they are doing an in-company survey asking about working conditions and such. Here's hoping that the company is genuinely going to listen and value the results. I really feel for the pilots out there hope things get better.