GGN CRJ Captain

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tallyho
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GGN CRJ Captain

#1 Post by tallyho » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:49 am

Hello all, anyone care to share what direct RJ captain will make? Lots jet time, no RJ time.
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#2 Post by Inverted2 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:01 am

I would seriously look elsewhere first. If you have lots of jet time there are better options. You would likely make more at Sunwing in the right seat in your first year then left seat there and have a way better schedule.
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#3 Post by fsantana » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:16 am

Inverted2 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:01 am
I would seriously look elsewhere first. If you have lots of jet time there are better options. You would likely make more at Sunwing in the right seat in your first year then left seat there and have a way better schedule.
What makes you think he/she is not looking some other place?
What if she/he did and is not getting any answer from anybody, but the world keeps on turning?

What if the GGN’s conditions are good for whatever the heck she/he is looking for?

He/she probably already applied to Sunwing but is still waiting for a call?

At the end it all just translate to what the pilot is looking for isn’t?

But to answer the question, a GGN RJ captain does good and can make better with overtime. You can apply if you want and find out yourself.
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#4 Post by nightbird » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:17 am

$72 an hour, minimum guaranteed is 70. Average block is around 85 hours. Overtime is available most of the time if you want it, time and a half kicks in after 90 hours.
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#5 Post by tallyho » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:16 pm

Thanks for the info Nightbird. Haven't applied anywhere, I was just curious about the pay.
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#6 Post by 805ITT » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:31 pm

Hi,

The posting is intended to recruit Captain's that are flying Dash 8s, ATRs, Dornier328s, SAAB340s or in the corporate world and looking for a set schedule. After 15 months of promoting internally, the average time of the FOs are starting to get a little low to support the projected 2018 attrition levels.

This is an opportunity to go to an Express carrier (if you wish) and hopefully not have to take a pay cut to be an FO at Jazz or Sky. If your end goal is Air Canada, starting in January, AGL is going to be moving 8-10 pilots per month to Air Canada and we need to replace those positions internally and externally.

I understand that AGL has received some bad press recently, but there is always more to the story and unfortunately it is only one sided for now. I will reiterate that we had a finding free Transport Canada PVI in August and are always looking for areas of continuous improvement.

We have a similar opportunity for 1900 Captains as well for 703, 704 drivers meeting the requirements.

If you are interested in the opportunity or have any questions please feel free to PM me.
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#7 Post by Boreas » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:23 pm

tallyho wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:49 am
... what direct RJ captain will make? ...
At Georgian?

Less than any other captain to have flown that plane before. Fact!
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#8 Post by CRJDRVR » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:15 am

As a GGN DEC, here is the inside scoop

1) GGN has a lot of negative politics on the inside which are not healthy for any outsider coming in with experience but if you never say no to CrewSked and get along well with other team members, it is a very good job where you can make money on OT.

2) MX can vary largely based on who is manning MOC or if there are enough spare tails. A lot of the line technicians are awesome. They do the best with what they have to work with. However there are times things fall apart and this is where your use your 4 bars. MX over the past year is slowly getting better but get used to the sight of speed tape and weird things like a CDL for a missing static whick which is actually a piece of winglet broken off. The planes MEL list has been a priority the past few months the and 4-6 items used to be common, now it's usually nil to 1-2.

3) It's a fast pace, we do 30 minute turns. OTP is very important. We also have customs walks, I have noticed are getting less frequent but be prepared to walk, wear out shoes and crew bags.

4) Your social media is heavily monitored, and is used against you. Also, there are people who bait you into saying negative comments which then get reported to management, so try and be positive, which can be very hard just due to the fast pace and stress. Overall though, the people are awesome and work hard.

5) The pay and benefits are below standard. That said if you like OT you can crack $100K. The ALPA contract could hopefully fix this.

6) Be prepared for months of Reserve and Stand-Ups. There are some CA's stuck in a senority loop where they cannot move up. One is currently doing an entire month of Stand-Ups with no end in sight.

7). The Union has no CA seniority. So when an FO hired before you is ready to upgrade, you will be pushed down. This is unlikely to change.

8) Hotels vary in quality. Some recent changes have been for the better. The layovers are short unless you have a 72 hour reset. Most crews have enough time to eat, have one beer and go to bed when they get to the layover.

9) The flying is good. You will be challenged and it's fun.

10) Air Canada and the PML. Myself and all of the other candidates on the PML got an email on March 1st, 2017 stating we will get a video interview. Candidates have been taken out of sequence and a lot of us have yet to see an interview. Your chances are better with West Jet to get on with Air Canada. Yes, internal memo's say 100 -130 of us will go to AC, but if that number is true, there are no video interviews in our inboxes to support that claim. Our attrition to Air Canada has only been a handful in 2017. So maybe our efforts will be valued by Air Canada in 2018?

11) If you want some good 705 Jet PIC, come aboard. At present the company has a lot of internal growth needed to become what it can be, I have faith it eventually will. Praying for CR900's...
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#9 Post by iflyroads » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:26 am

Boreas wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:23 pm
tallyho wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:49 am
... what direct RJ captain will make? ...
At Georgian?

Less than any other captain to have flown that plane before. Fact!
And those captains got paid less than the mainline guys who once flew those aircraft/routes. Its the sad part of aviation. Labour one of the only controllable costs. :toimonster:
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#10 Post by tallyho » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:42 am

To be honest, I don't know of any Dash, ATR or corporate guys that wouldn't be taking a pay cut to go left seat at GGN. Around $73k to captain a commuter jet by my reckoning. A first year WestJet/Air Canada FO will damn near make that. Think I'll pass.
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#11 Post by avpride » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:40 am

tallyho wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:42 am
To be honest, I don't know of any Dash, ATR or corporate guys that wouldn't be taking a pay cut to go left seat at GGN. Around $73k to captain a commuter jet by my reckoning. A first year WestJet/Air Canada FO will damn near make that. Think I'll pass.

With normal flying, you will make about 90K if you want to work a bit harder, take some draft etc you will be in low low 100's excluding perdiem.
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#12 Post by flyinhigh » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:49 am

$72 an hour to Capt an RJ.

Wow that is crap..
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#13 Post by gtanorth » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:57 am

CRJDRVR wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:15 am
As a GGN DEC, here is the inside scoop

1) GGN has a lot of negative politics on the inside which are not healthy for any outsider coming in with experience but if you never say no to CrewSked and get along well with other team members, it is a very good job where you can make money on OT.

2) MX can vary largely based on who is manning MOC or if there are enough spare tails. A lot of the line technicians are awesome. They do the best with what they have to work with. However there are times things fall apart and this is where your use your 4 bars. MX over the past year is slowly getting better but get used to the sight of speed tape and weird things like a CDL for a missing static whick which is actually a piece of winglet broken off. The planes MEL list has been a priority the past few months the and 4-6 items used to be common, now it's usually nil to 1-2.

3) It's a fast pace, we do 30 minute turns. OTP is very important. We also have customs walks, I have noticed are getting less frequent but be prepared to walk, wear out shoes and crew bags.

4) Your social media is heavily monitored, and is used against you. Also, there are people who bait you into saying negative comments which then get reported to management, so try and be positive, which can be very hard just due to the fast pace and stress. Overall though, the people are awesome and work hard.

5) The pay and benefits are below standard. That said if you like OT you can crack $100K. The ALPA contract could hopefully fix this.

6) Be prepared for months of Reserve and Stand-Ups. There are some CA's stuck in a senority loop where they cannot move up. One is currently doing an entire month of Stand-Ups with no end in sight.

7). The Union has no CA seniority. So when an FO hired before you is ready to upgrade, you will be pushed down. This is unlikely to change.

8) Hotels vary in quality. Some recent changes have been for the better. The layovers are short unless you have a 72 hour reset. Most crews have enough time to eat, have one beer and go to bed when they get to the layover.

9) The flying is good. You will be challenged and it's fun.

10) Air Canada and the PML. Myself and all of the other candidates on the PML got an email on March 1st, 2017 stating we will get a video interview. Candidates have been taken out of sequence and a lot of us have yet to see an interview. Your chances are better with West Jet to get on with Air Canada. Yes, internal memo's say 100 -130 of us will go to AC, but if that number is true, there are no video interviews in our inboxes to support that claim. Our attrition to Air Canada has only been a handful in 2017. So maybe our efforts will be valued by Air Canada in 2018?

11) If you want some good 705 Jet PIC, come aboard. At present the company has a lot of internal growth needed to become what it can be, I have faith it eventually will. Praying for CR900's...

That's a very fair post for sure. Couple points. I don't think they actually monitor social media I suspect they respond to concerns as they are raised, could be wrong but I would be surprised. Regarding the chances at WJ people need to keep in mind that is a flash in the pan as AC introduces the 737 and their desire to hire experienced drivers. I am not sure if they have or not but they should be explaining that the flow in 2017 was slow as AC needed to get through the jazz list but the plan for 2018 is due to a big change they made in their agreement with Air Canada which is really using Georgian as a training ground. AC likes the low cost of training pilots on the Beech
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#14 Post by Inverted2 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:28 am

avpride wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:40 am
tallyho wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:42 am
To be honest, I don't know of any Dash, ATR or corporate guys that wouldn't be taking a pay cut to go left seat at GGN. Around $73k to captain a commuter jet by my reckoning. A first year WestJet/Air Canada FO will damn near make that. Think I'll pass.

With normal flying, you will make about 90K if you want to work a bit harder, take some draft etc you will be in low low 100's excluding perdiem.
Some of the overtime junkies at Jazz are making over 200k not counting perdiems.
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#15 Post by CRJDRVR » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:57 am

The feeling on the line is Air Canada doesn't want "experienced" people. There have been guys at the top of the PML list who could upgrade quickly being bypassed in favor of lower time FO's.

If Air Canada truly has intentions of giving them a shot or us lower on the PML it could be communicated, many of us have our foot out the door to places like Sunwing, Encore, Cargo Jet, or Porter because of the "carrot" being rotten.

We have a lot of jet PIC, but it's the turbo prop or RJ FO who gets the call so the "experienced" quote is striking a raw nerve.

The comments about social media are true, more so for the FA's, yes some have deserved the punishmnet.

This is a good job considering the dismal state of Canadian Aviation on a whole, and as stated, if you like to work, this is the place to be
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#16 Post by gtanorth » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:16 am

Inverted2 wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:28 am
avpride wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:40 am
tallyho wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:42 am
To be honest, I don't know of any Dash, ATR or corporate guys that wouldn't be taking a pay cut to go left seat at GGN. Around $73k to captain a commuter jet by my reckoning. A first year WestJet/Air Canada FO will damn near make that. Think I'll pass.

With normal flying, you will make about 90K if you want to work a bit harder, take some draft etc you will be in low low 100's excluding perdiem.
Some of the overtime junkies at Jazz are making over 200k not counting perdiems.

If you went full junkie mode at AGL you would be about 150. The big win at AGL is when you become a checker or indoc guy. The one plus at AGL is you do have a chance to make really decent money. Im sure all operators do this but no stagnation at AGL in those positions so lots of movement. Bottom line is if you are money driven you could probably do better but if you dont mind working a bit more even without going junkie mode its pretty good certainly OK. Jazz is always going to be paid more for less - agree
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#17 Post by CRJDRVR » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:36 am

Only problem for some bottom CA's are stand-ups are paid at 2 credits per flight day for three days

It's impossible to break min credit :smt008

Increases for Line Indoc CA are about $8 per hour, which is paid regardless if flown as a lower rank

No increase for Line Check CA, just fame

Best month was close to $15,000 as with life as a Zombie with 130 ish credits before 1.5X

If you embrace the OT, $10500 - $11500 could be possible but $150,000 is smoking something for sure...

Bottom line is the people are great, it's a good learning experience

If you can survive here you will do awesome anywhere!

Despite Air Canada not wanting you...
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#18 Post by Dark Helmet » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:35 pm

nightbird wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:17 am
$72 an hour, minimum guaranteed is 70. Average block is around 85 hours. Overtime is available most of the time if you want it, time and a half kicks in after 90 hours.
Wow!!!! :shock: :roll: I made more than that flying right seat on the RJ at Jazz. Where the RJ job was 1000% better in ALL aspects.

Shamefull :vom:
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#19 Post by gtanorth » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:35 pm

CRJDRVR wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:36 am
Only problem for some bottom CA's are stand-ups are paid at 2 credits per flight day for three days

It's impossible to break min credit :smt008

Increases for Line Indoc CA are about $8 per hour, which is paid regardless if flown as a lower rank

No increase for Line Check CA, just fame

Best month was close to $15,000 as with life as a Zombie with 130 ish credits before 1.5X

If you embrace the OT, $10500 - $11500 could be possible but $150,000 is smoking something for sure...

Bottom line is the people are great, it's a good learning experience

If you can survive here you will do awesome anywhere!

Despite Air Canada not wanting you...

Good point on seniority playing a big part on how hard you need to work for additional credits. Ask your CP for the top 5 highest paid numbers for last year, would be interesting to see where they were on seniority.
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#20 Post by gtanorth » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:38 pm

Dark Helmet wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:35 pm
nightbird wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:17 am
$72 an hour, minimum guaranteed is 70. Average block is around 85 hours. Overtime is available most of the time if you want it, time and a half kicks in after 90 hours.
Wow!!!! :shock: :roll: I made more than that flying right seat on the RJ at Jazz. Where the RJ job was 1000% better in ALL aspects.

Shamefull :vom:
That would make you an 11 year FO..... not sure that's a good argument
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#21 Post by Dark Helmet » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:35 pm

gtanorth wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:38 pm
Dark Helmet wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:35 pm
nightbird wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:17 am
$72 an hour, minimum guaranteed is 70. Average block is around 85 hours. Overtime is available most of the time if you want it, time and a half kicks in after 90 hours.
Wow!!!! :shock: :roll: I made more than that flying right seat on the RJ at Jazz. Where the RJ job was 1000% better in ALL aspects.

Shamefull :vom:
That would make you an 11 year FO..... not sure that's a good argument
Respectfully gtanorth, much like a lot of your posts: incorrect. :roll:

I was there for less than 10 years. My last 2 years I did better than what was advertised above. Virtually with no OT (some NBG and high credit months over the summer)

That is a relevant argument as it had a much better job flying as an FO than a Georgian Capt did on the same equip. I could have held the left seat on the DH8 in my last year but stayed on the RJ for schedule and lifestyle. (it was a good enough job that I could actually do that, 8) aint that cool?) Had I taken the Left seat, the pay would have literally blown that $72/hr out of the water. Schedule would have taken a hit but the conditions would have still been much better than what is offered at GGN.

I guess I could have also taken the DEC Capt job at GGN too :wink: You can probably guess why I never did.

At Jazz it was average 78-85/hr a month, usually around 80, 90 on high blocking months. 1.5 after 85 hours
OT at 1.5 for the whole pairing, like I said I hardly did any.
Typical month 10-15 days of flying. I think the CA had 12 gdos but I very seldom saw that few.
Great flying, nice decent layovers at very nice hotels in excellent locations.
Excellent Perdiems, Benefits, DB pension.
I can count on one hand how many times I had 3 MELs (yes 3 was the max).
Great crews, safe operation, never felt pressured from Management, OTP was good because it was a well run operation.
I was at 4 weeks Vac and 2 weeks stats. And we were able to take all of it, no shortages.

It was really good while it lasted, unfortunately those days on that machine are gone and it is shameful. :|

Sorry but I find it comical that people are posting the conditions for a GGN RJ CAPT as they are here and somehow think that is a good job. I sure hope it is better than advertised.

I am just calling it how I see it. Hopefully ALPA can create much needed improvements.

Good luck.
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#22 Post by iflyroads » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:19 pm

Also hasn't been posted on here but 10 GDOs a month. The senior guys enjoy more but the new hires tend to get just that.
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#23 Post by CRJDRVR » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:36 pm

Based on the "virtual reality" from GTA NORTH he is likely management

He is right about seniority, if you are will to work you will do bottom at the better than the top but stand-ups at 1/2 pay but the same amount of work as two flight days, and inside the training department where your deadhead paid at half block time in transit to places like PHX or CLT take a huge chunk of your possible pay

It is GDO of 10 days, some so get 11

9 stat days

Vacation is also an issue, you get 10 days after a year but you bid the year before, most never get them with lower seniority unless you sneak in a VAC or two in the monthly schedule

You do get the perk of accepting min rest of 10 hours for 2 credits. Draft is 6 credits or 1.5X

If you are looking for a schedule as a DEC, you will have ten days off a month but you have no idea of what you are doing until the 05:30 wake up call. This makes this job very difficult to commute without a YYZ crash pad

Per diem is about $1.90 CDN or the current USD exchange. There is no real cell phone repayment which will be needed for MOC calls so go with a good US plan like Telus or Wind. If you have exact call records you try and submit them as an expense but with all the OT, who has time when you are getting fitted for gold teeth?

No tips for shuttles and rest time starts 30 minutes after the cabin door is closed, not when you actually hit the hotel which means a short night in CMH.

As a DEC do not expect much help at CAE and the FO's will smell you out like sharks in the water... Be nice to them, when they upgrade, they will push you down on the schedule 😂
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#24 Post by nightbird » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:43 pm

Jazz is a better operation than Georgian, also a more mature one. All the advances in the contract at Jazz didn't happened overnight, it is the result of decades of negotiations.
Financially you will be better by off at Georgian in the short term (lets say 3 to 4 year span) due to the fast upgrades.
Also it depends at what stage you are in your career. If you have a lot of jet pic time and you have the opportunity to go right seat at Jazz ( have they ever hired DEC) for $35k or DEC at Georgian for $75k where would you go? Taking into consideration that you're not gonna stay there for a long time. With all the opportunities today you would be crazy to make a regional a career job for many reasons.
Another thing is not everyone can work at Jazz, in my case I was flying for a 703 company that had way worst conditions than Georgian so when I was ready to apply to a regional I applied to all of them, basically every operator with a 705 machine and the first one to call was Air Georgian. Why would I say no to that and seat there waiting for Jazz or anyone else to call... What if that never happened or took another year or two. In those two theoretical years I gain some experience in a 705 jet including a significant amount of PIC time and was hired by a major airline which was the goal since the beginning so where I spent the last two years is irrelevant.
In my case I made more money in those two years than going to Jazz (because of the quick upgrade) and gain experience that would've been useful (Jet PIC vs Prop right seat) if I decided to go somewhere else.
So concluding Jazz is a better company with better pay and work conditions but not the best choice for everyone.
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Re: GGN CRJ Captain

#25 Post by gtanorth » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:47 pm

Dark Helmet wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:35 pm
gtanorth wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:38 pm
Dark Helmet wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:35 pm


Wow!!!! :shock: :roll: I made more than that flying right seat on the RJ at Jazz. Where the RJ job was 1000% better in ALL aspects.

Shamefull :vom:
That would make you an 11 year FO..... not sure that's a good argument
Respectfully gtanorth, much like a lot of your posts: incorrect. :roll:

I was there for less than 10 years. My last 2 years I did better than what was advertised above. Virtually with no OT (some NBG and high credit months over the summer)

That is a relevant argument as it had a much better job flying as an FO than a Georgian Capt did on the same equip. I could have held the left seat on the DH8 in my last year but stayed on the RJ for schedule and lifestyle. (it was a good enough job that I could actually do that, 8) aint that cool?) Had I taken the Left seat, the pay would have literally blown that $72/hr out of the water. Schedule would have taken a hit but the conditions would have still been much better than what is offered at GGN.

I guess I could have also taken the DEC Capt job at GGN too :wink: You can probably guess why I never did.

At Jazz it was average 78-85/hr a month, usually around 80, 90 on high blocking months. 1.5 after 85 hours
OT at 1.5 for the whole pairing, like I said I hardly did any.
Typical month 10-15 days
Great flying, nice decent layovers at very nice hotels in excellent locations.
Excellent Perdiems, Benefits, DB pension.
I can count on one hand how many times I had 3 MELs (yes 3 was the max).
Great crews, safe operation, never felt pressured from Management, OTP was good because it was a well run operation.
I was at 4 weeks Vac and 2 weeks stats. And we were able to take all of it, no shortages.

It was really good while it lasted, unfortunately those days on that machine are gone and it is shameful. :|

Sorry but I find it comical that people are posting the conditions for a GGN RJ CAPT as they are here and somehow think that is a good job. I sure hope it is better than advertised.

I am just calling it how I see it. Hopefully ALPA can create much needed improvements.

Good luck.

OK so you're an 10 year FO. Still don't think that's a very compelling argument - go to Jazz - be an FO for 10 years and you can make more than a GGN Capt day 1. Really OK if you think that is making an argument against GGN
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