ggn 1900 fo postion

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limaoscarlima
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ggn 1900 fo postion

#1 Post by limaoscarlima » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:03 am

does anybody know current pay scale/benefits for ggn 1900 FO? Would is be possible to commute from yyc/yyz with this position?
what kind of time are they looking for (at least 800 or 800 preferred)?

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Re: ggn 1900 fo postion

#2 Post by yhz41 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:09 am

Their 1900 bases are yyc and yyz.
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Re: ggn 1900 fo postion

#3 Post by limaoscarlima » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:33 pm

does georgian allow communting from yyc to yvr?
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Re: ggn 1900 fo postion

#4 Post by 805ITT » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:21 am

Yes to commuting. There are quite a few pilots that work for AGL that live in the Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island.
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Re: ggn 1900 fo postion

#5 Post by HansDietrich » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:51 am

I think you can fly stand-by with AC or Jazz the same way the other "AC family" carriers do it. The only issue is that you'll probably spend all your money on commuting. The only way to do this is live in your parents' basement and commute / fly with GGN, build some time then get a job for a slightly better pay elsewhere.
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Re: ggn 1900 fo postion

#6 Post by LongPaws » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:43 am

Yes you can commute but with no official commute policy and management trying their hardest to keep away from it, you won't have an easy time.

Your best bet if commuting is using the reciprocal jumpseat agreement with westjet. It's cheaper and you'll make some connections for a future job
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Re: ggn 1900 fo postion

#7 Post by Inverted2 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:53 pm

HansDietrich wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:51 am
I think you can fly stand-by with AC or Jazz the same way the other "AC family" carriers do it. The only issue is that you'll probably spend all your money on commuting. The only way to do this is live in your parents' basement and commute / fly with GGN, build some time then get a job for a slightly better pay elsewhere.
Commuting on your AC passes is getting to be very expensive (thanks to the airport improvement fees :x ). It averages $100 round trip between any 2 cities on the AC network, that's if you get a seat on standby :roll: . WJ is a lot cheaper but commuting sucks.
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Re: ggn 1900 fo postion

#8 Post by 805ITT » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:11 pm

Management doesn't care if you commute or not, as long as you are rested and ready to go when you start your pairing.
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Re: ggn 1900 fo postion

#9 Post by DanWEC » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:45 am

Don't do it. You'd be doing yourself a huge disservice as a pilot starting your career.
Go up north, or even halfway there at a place like Thunder. Go Captain, and you'll have great stories, hands and feet, friends, and some serious decision making credibility after a couple of years.

Oh, and they pay almost double what Georgian does. Gives you an idea about being valued.
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Re: ggn 1900 fo postion

#10 Post by avpride » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:15 am

DanWEC wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:45 am
Don't do it. You'd be doing yourself a huge disservice as a pilot starting your career.
Go up north, or even halfway there at a place like Thunder. Go Captain, and you'll have great stories, hands and feet, friends, and some serious decision making credibility after a couple of years.

Oh, and they pay almost double what Georgian does. Gives you an idea about being valued.
Nothing wrong with that path at all but it will put you back a couple of years going to AC.
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Re: ggn 1900 fo postion

#11 Post by limaoscarlima » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:09 am

thanks for the replies. what are their schedules like? 3-4 day pairings or mainly one day trips.
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Re: ggn 1900 fo postion

#12 Post by gtanorth » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:24 am

limaoscarlima wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:09 am
thanks for the replies. what are their schedules like? 3-4 day pairings or mainly one day trips.
Here they are changing the pilot scheduling software in Jan to Merlot. Not sure if any current advice would help
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Re: ggn 1900 fo postion

#13 Post by FL007 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:57 pm

avpride wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:15 am
DanWEC wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:45 am
Don't do it. You'd be doing yourself a huge disservice as a pilot starting your career.
Go up north, or even halfway there at a place like Thunder. Go Captain, and you'll have great stories, hands and feet, friends, and some serious decision making credibility after a couple of years.

Oh, and they pay almost double what Georgian does. Gives you an idea about being valued.
Nothing wrong with that path at all but it will put you back a couple of years going to AC.
I wouldn't say that GGN 1900 furthers your career progression, much either. Especially with them not taking guys off the 1900 as much for the RJ, then hiring RJ guys/gals from flight schools. Leaving for a better express carrier isn't the best for the PML.
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Re: ggn 1900 fo postion

#14 Post by gtanorth » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:22 am

FL007 wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:57 pm
avpride wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:15 am
DanWEC wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:45 am
Don't do it. You'd be doing yourself a huge disservice as a pilot starting your career.
Go up north, or even halfway there at a place like Thunder. Go Captain, and you'll have great stories, hands and feet, friends, and some serious decision making credibility after a couple of years.

Oh, and they pay almost double what Georgian does. Gives you an idea about being valued.
Nothing wrong with that path at all but it will put you back a couple of years going to AC.
I wouldn't say that GGN 1900 furthers your career progression, much either. Especially with them not taking guys off the 1900 as much for the RJ, then hiring RJ guys/gals from flight schools. Leaving for a better express carrier isn't the best for the PML.

The PML is seniority based has nothing to do with equip type. Hiring is for equip vacancy just like every other company. Not sure what your point is.
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Re: ggn 1900 fo postion

#15 Post by FL007 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:06 am

gtanorth wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:22 am
FL007 wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:57 pm
avpride wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:15 am


Nothing wrong with that path at all but it will put you back a couple of years going to AC.
I wouldn't say that GGN 1900 furthers your career progression, much either. Especially with them not taking guys off the 1900 as much for the RJ, then hiring RJ guys/gals from flight schools. Leaving for a better express carrier isn't the best for the PML.

The PML is seniority based has nothing to do with equip type. Hiring is for equip vacancy just like every other company. Not sure what your point is.
Equipment based but you still interview for a position a AC, they're not clambering for 1900 crews at mainline. And as per hiring equip vacancy, there is always equipment vacancy on the 1900, however the RJ is what is being advertised in flight school posters.

My point is the 1900 at GGN probably will put you back a couple of years going to AC as well, the PML would be beneficial from the RJ, not the 1900, and you probably will be stuck on the 1900 for a couple of years, at least, with the lack of interest in the position. They don't even have the AC express logos on them anymore.
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Re: ggn 1900 fo postion

#16 Post by gtanorth » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:35 am

FL007 wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:06 am
gtanorth wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:22 am
FL007 wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:57 pm


I wouldn't say that GGN 1900 furthers your career progression, much either. Especially with them not taking guys off the 1900 as much for the RJ, then hiring RJ guys/gals from flight schools. Leaving for a better express carrier isn't the best for the PML.

The PML is seniority based has nothing to do with equip type. Hiring is for equip vacancy just like every other company. Not sure what your point is.
Equipment based but you still interview for a position a AC, they're not clambering for 1900 crews at mainline. And as per hiring equip vacancy, there is always equipment vacancy on the 1900, however the RJ is what is being advertised in flight school posters.

My point is the 1900 at GGN probably will put you back a couple of years going to AC as well, the PML would be beneficial from the RJ, not the 1900, and you probably will be stuck on the 1900 for a couple of years, at least, with the lack of interest in the position.

That is 100% wrong - pilots from both types go to AC in pretty equal numbers, in fact in 2017 slightly more 1900 pilots went to AC than CRJ. In any case the PML is seniority based, you are correct that if coming from the Beech AC wants you to have PIC time but if off the CRJ they dont care, its about a 2 year cycle through. Fly the Beech for a year and go Capt or go to the CRJ FO. Either way the phone rings from AC for your interview on the same day and you have the same chance of getting hired.
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Re: ggn 1900 fo postion

#17 Post by FL007 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:47 am

gtanorth wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:35 am
FL007 wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:06 am
gtanorth wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:22 am



The PML is seniority based has nothing to do with equip type. Hiring is for equip vacancy just like every other company. Not sure what your point is.
Equipment based but you still interview for a position a AC, they're not clambering for 1900 crews at mainline. And as per hiring equip vacancy, there is always equipment vacancy on the 1900, however the RJ is what is being advertised in flight school posters.

My point is the 1900 at GGN probably will put you back a couple of years going to AC as well, the PML would be beneficial from the RJ, not the 1900, and you probably will be stuck on the 1900 for a couple of years, at least, with the lack of interest in the position.

That is 100% wrong - pilots from both types go to AC in pretty equal numbers, in fact in 2017 slightly more 1900 pilots went to AC than CRJ. In any case the PML is seniority based, you are correct that if coming from the Beech AC wants you to have PIC time but if off the CRJ they dont care, its about a 2 year cycle through. Fly the Beech for a year and go Capt or go to the CRJ FO. Either way the phone rings from AC for your interview on the same day and you have the same chance of getting hired.
Fly the Beech for a year? I know more than a couple of people who are on equipment freeze at GGN on the 1900 for at least two years, obviously not stuck in the right seat. So from your own point I would need to sit right seat potentially for two years, then go either left seat on the 1900 with an ATPL and 2000 hours for some pic time, or right seat RJ? That's ludicrous in this industry where you could go capt at Jazz for double the pay on a 705 machine. If you leave for a better schedule and pay at Jazz from the 1900 you effectively reset yourself on the PML as well..

If you advocate 27k to live in YYZ to fly an aircraft people in Canada are being paid 40K to fly, just for a pathway to AC, then express carriers will do nothing to improve WAWCON, and will never be a viable life career companies. We should all be paid well in respect to the job we're doing and the skill needed to do it, not suffer until a company like AC who doesn't owe anyone anything gives us a chance at a real life.
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Re: ggn 1900 fo postion

#18 Post by gtanorth » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:06 am

FL007 wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:47 am
gtanorth wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:35 am
FL007 wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:06 am


Equipment based but you still interview for a position a AC, they're not clambering for 1900 crews at mainline. And as per hiring equip vacancy, there is always equipment vacancy on the 1900, however the RJ is what is being advertised in flight school posters.

My point is the 1900 at GGN probably will put you back a couple of years going to AC as well, the PML would be beneficial from the RJ, not the 1900, and you probably will be stuck on the 1900 for a couple of years, at least, with the lack of interest in the position.

That is 100% wrong - pilots from both types go to AC in pretty equal numbers, in fact in 2017 slightly more 1900 pilots went to AC than CRJ. In any case the PML is seniority based, you are correct that if coming from the Beech AC wants you to have PIC time but if off the CRJ they dont care, its about a 2 year cycle through. Fly the Beech for a year and go Capt or go to the CRJ FO. Either way the phone rings from AC for your interview on the same day and you have the same chance of getting hired.
Fly the Beech for a year? I know more than a couple of people who are on equipment freeze at GGN on the 1900 for at least two years, obviously not stuck in the right seat. So from your own point I would need to sit right seat potentially for two years, then go either left seat on the 1900 with an ATPL and 2000 hours for some pic time, or right seat RJ? That's ludicrous in this industry where you could go capt at Jazz for double the pay on a 705 machine. If you leave for a better schedule and pay at Jazz from the 1900 you effectively reset yourself on the PML as well..

If you advocate 27k to live in YYZ to fly an aircraft people in Canada are being paid 40K to fly, just for a pathway to AC, then express carriers will do nothing to improve WAWCON, and will never be a viable life career companies. We should all be paid well in respect to the job we're doing and the skill needed to do it, not suffer until a company like AC who doesn't owe anyone anything gives us a chance at a real life.
If anyone is on a position or equip freeze that is a very new thing. Cant see it unless it was a one time ask but it would contradict the CBA otherwise. No- what I was saying was from hire to AC is currently about 24 months. Fly the Beech 12 months upgrade or fly the CRJ as an FO, now I get your point about not enough time to go Capt in 12 months but that is not a freeze that is more of a career choice of when to join Express and start the PML process. I dont think the new Jazz wages are much different than at GGN now and the edge actually goes to GGN with the faster upgrade over the 24 month period you are on property - if that stretches to 36 months even a bigger $$ win at GGN. Don't get me wrong I'm not pro or con PML other than to say your view on the PML was wrong and that people dont get passed over by AC because they are on the Beech... ever.

Regarding the starting wages. Like I said the focus should be on what a 2 - 3 year lifespan looks like at GGN vs Jazz not starting wages. Is that right or wrong who knows, will it change, not as long as they keep sending pilots to AC, why would it. Either way apply at both Jazz and GGN and go to whoever hires you first. That will be the fastest road to AC 100%.
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Re: ggn 1900 fo postion

#19 Post by FL007 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:14 am

gtanorth wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:06 am
FL007 wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:47 am
gtanorth wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:35 am



That is 100% wrong - pilots from both types go to AC in pretty equal numbers, in fact in 2017 slightly more 1900 pilots went to AC than CRJ. In any case the PML is seniority based, you are correct that if coming from the Beech AC wants you to have PIC time but if off the CRJ they dont care, its about a 2 year cycle through. Fly the Beech for a year and go Capt or go to the CRJ FO. Either way the phone rings from AC for your interview on the same day and you have the same chance of getting hired.
Fly the Beech for a year? I know more than a couple of people who are on equipment freeze at GGN on the 1900 for at least two years, obviously not stuck in the right seat. So from your own point I would need to sit right seat potentially for two years, then go either left seat on the 1900 with an ATPL and 2000 hours for some pic time, or right seat RJ? That's ludicrous in this industry where you could go capt at Jazz for double the pay on a 705 machine. If you leave for a better schedule and pay at Jazz from the 1900 you effectively reset yourself on the PML as well..

If you advocate 27k to live in YYZ to fly an aircraft people in Canada are being paid 40K to fly, just for a pathway to AC, then express carriers will do nothing to improve WAWCON, and will never be a viable life career companies. We should all be paid well in respect to the job we're doing and the skill needed to do it, not suffer until a company like AC who doesn't owe anyone anything gives us a chance at a real life.
If anyone is on a position or equip freeze that is a very new thing. Cant see it unless it was a one time ask but it would contradict the CBA otherwise. No- what I was saying was from hire to AC is currently about 24 months. Fly the Beech 12 months upgrade or fly the CRJ as an FO, now I get your point about not enough time to go Capt in 12 months but that is not a freeze that is more of a career choice of when to join Express and start the PML process. I dont think the new Jazz wages are much different than at GGN now and the edge actually goes to GGN with the faster upgrade over the 24 month period you are on property - if that stretches to 36 months even a bigger $$ win at GGN. Don't get me wrong I'm not pro or con PML other than to say your view on the PML was wrong and that people dont get passed over by AC because they are on the Beech... ever.

Regarding the starting wages. Like I said the focus should be on what a 2 - 3 year lifespan looks like at GGN vs Jazz not starting wages. Is that right or wrong who knows, will it change, not as long as they keep sending pilots to AC, why would it. Either way apply at both Jazz and GGN and go to whoever hires you first. That will be the fastest road to AC 100%.
Perhaps it is a new thing yes, and I understand your points as well, but also current upgrade times at Jazz as per the last equipment bid is, well, junior was 7ish months? If GGN is upgrading faster than that i'd be surprised. This has nothing to do with the RJ vs Jazz vs Sky, I just think the 1900 has no place in the "carrot dangling" and someone should have realistic expectations, especially someone without experience in the industry. In a year that person may be surprised when they're still paying for a training bond they signed for a plane that no longer exists in the Express network anymore.

If GGN 1900 doesn't have a bond, EVAS definitely do, perfect example of a company still dangling a carrot that I personally don't think they have the right to dangle.. But they are an Express carrier.
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Re: ggn 1900 fo postion

#20 Post by gtanorth » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:37 am

FL007 wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:14 am
gtanorth wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:06 am
FL007 wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:47 am


Fly the Beech for a year? I know more than a couple of people who are on equipment freeze at GGN on the 1900 for at least two years, obviously not stuck in the right seat. So from your own point I would need to sit right seat potentially for two years, then go either left seat on the 1900 with an ATPL and 2000 hours for some pic time, or right seat RJ? That's ludicrous in this industry where you could go capt at Jazz for double the pay on a 705 machine. If you leave for a better schedule and pay at Jazz from the 1900 you effectively reset yourself on the PML as well..

If you advocate 27k to live in YYZ to fly an aircraft people in Canada are being paid 40K to fly, just for a pathway to AC, then express carriers will do nothing to improve WAWCON, and will never be a viable life career companies. We should all be paid well in respect to the job we're doing and the skill needed to do it, not suffer until a company like AC who doesn't owe anyone anything gives us a chance at a real life.
If anyone is on a position or equip freeze that is a very new thing. Cant see it unless it was a one time ask but it would contradict the CBA otherwise. No- what I was saying was from hire to AC is currently about 24 months. Fly the Beech 12 months upgrade or fly the CRJ as an FO, now I get your point about not enough time to go Capt in 12 months but that is not a freeze that is more of a career choice of when to join Express and start the PML process. I dont think the new Jazz wages are much different than at GGN now and the edge actually goes to GGN with the faster upgrade over the 24 month period you are on property - if that stretches to 36 months even a bigger $$ win at GGN. Don't get me wrong I'm not pro or con PML other than to say your view on the PML was wrong and that people dont get passed over by AC because they are on the Beech... ever.

Regarding the starting wages. Like I said the focus should be on what a 2 - 3 year lifespan looks like at GGN vs Jazz not starting wages. Is that right or wrong who knows, will it change, not as long as they keep sending pilots to AC, why would it. Either way apply at both Jazz and GGN and go to whoever hires you first. That will be the fastest road to AC 100%.
Perhaps it is a new thing yes, and I understand your points as well, but also current upgrade times at Jazz as per the last equipment bid is, well, junior was 7ish months? If GGN is upgrading faster than that i'd be surprised. This has nothing to do with the RJ vs Jazz vs Sky, I just think the 1900 has no place in the "carrot dangling" and someone should have realistic expectations, especially someone without experience in the industry. In a year that person may be surprised when they're still paying for a training bond they signed for a plane that no longer exists in the Express network anymore.

If GGN 1900 doesn't have a bond, EVAS definitely do, perfect example of a company still dangling a carrot that I personally don't think they have the right to dangle.. But they are an Express carrier.

Fair enough but I still disagree on the Beech path to AC. I also think it is AC that decides what carrots the Express brand gets to dangle. As long as the Beech pilots are part of the PML then they have every right to dangle away. As far as if the type will be in the fleet who knows but I suspect with Link starting there will be more of a desire to keep the small aircraft in the system.
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Re: ggn 1900 fo postion

#21 Post by Thales Coelho » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:26 pm

New here, can someone explain how this Air Canada´s PML really works? They say that when you have the seniority and the qualifications (Air Canada minimuns?) they send you to an interview there. How does the type you fly (B1900 or CRJ) affect your chances? Is Air Canada hiring that mutch that once you have the minimuns you really have a real chance?

Do Air Georgian require Residence Permit or they pick FOs under a 3yrs PGWP (Post Graduation Work Permit) after the College? After 1 year of full time work under PGWP I would anyway ask for a PR, but wanna know if there's the possibility to get the right seat before the PR.

The average pay is about CAD27k a year? Very low! Is there other similar company that has a better pay?

Thanks you all. Sorry for bad english
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