Bearskin info

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indieadventurer
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Bearskin info

#1 Post by indieadventurer » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:38 pm

Anyone have the latest capt/fo pay scales and rigs info for JV? PM me if you'd prefer.
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dogfood
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Re: Bearskin info

#2 Post by dogfood » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:47 am

Not sure if it's changed but a couple years ago was 30k for fo 60k for captain. Per diem and over time were extra
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PA-18
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Re: Bearskin info

#3 Post by PA-18 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:30 pm

Going back a few years ago in 2015 captain pay started at $60.97 and topped out at $95.56
FO pay started at $34.52 and topped out at 42.45 80 hr guarantee. Blocked around that or higher with about 20% of that being credit time. Again this was a few years ago could have changed a bit from then

They have 2% inflation every year so it’s up a bit from that. Per diem last was $3.10 an hr I believe

Good place to work
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digits_
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Re: Bearskin info

#4 Post by digits_ » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:46 pm

Union contracts are accessible online: http://negotech.labour.gc.ca/eng/agreem ... 29005a.pdf

If this information is correct, then pay actually went down 3 years ago :roll:
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Maynard
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Re: Bearskin info

#5 Post by Maynard » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:14 am

Spoken like a true uninformed front page viewer. The new pay rate of 31$ an hour over the 34$ hr, comes along with better credit system, and per diem of 3.10$ an hour over 2.25$. Tax free. Makes a big difference, and you make more in 12 months than you would under the old contract. If your going to judge and roll your eyes, have some validity in doing so.

digits_
Union contracts are accessible online: http://negotech.labour.gc.ca/eng/agreem ... 29005a.pdf

If this information is correct, then pay actually went down 3 years ago :roll:
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digits_
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Re: Bearskin info

#6 Post by digits_ » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:30 am

Maynard wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:14 am
Spoken like a true uninformed front page viewer. The new pay rate of 31$ an hour over the 34$ hr, comes along with better credit system, and per diem of 3.10$ an hour over 2.25$. Tax free. Makes a big difference, and you make more in 12 months than you would under the old contract. If your going to judge and roll your eyes, have some validity in doing so.
Maybe. I am intrigued though. If the new pay is better than the old pay, then why is there a protected pay scale in the new one?

Or could it be, in true union style, that the bottom 60% of the seniority list had to take a pay cut to give the top 10% a raise? That's certainly what it looks like to an uninformed -but interested- observer.

Anyway, if anyone is interested, the old contract is also accesible: http://negotech.labour.gc.ca/eng/agreem ... 29004a.pdf
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Maynard
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Re: Bearskin info

#7 Post by Maynard » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:15 pm

The pay protection was from contract 4. Pay increases used to be substantial in year 1 and 2 captain and then taper off. year 5-20 increased from 72 to 77/hr. Year 1-3 went from 57-70/ hr. And most of the turnover was in that 1-2 year captain space. So like most other carriers, they changed to a linear scale which went from 60-98/hr evenly over the years. This wasn't "lets screw over the young and pay off the old" it was simply for retention. Why pay the big raises to the ones who leave. Pay the people who are dedicated enough to stay. So, that pay protection came in contract 4, until you reached the same level in contract 5 and then flowed up the linear scale on 5. I assure you no one took a pay cut (hence the pay protection) and new commers started at the same rate, but they didnt get as big of a bump in year 2/3/4...... Keep trolling though.
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digits_
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Re: Bearskin info

#8 Post by digits_ » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:42 pm

Thank you for the detailed reply.
Maynard wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:15 pm
it was simply for retention
You have to admit it's funny to try and retain people by paying them less.

"hey we notice captains are leaving in year 1 and 2"
- "let's pay them less"

I get that you were trying to retain the more senior people, but before you can retain them, you have to make sure you get them. If nobody wants to stick around for the reduced pay (3rd year 63 now instead of 77/hour in your example), you'll never get new senior guys. Might not be the best strategy.

But hey, not my problem. Something for the OP to think about though.
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Maynard
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Re: Bearskin info

#9 Post by Maynard » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:30 pm

If you knew the roster there you’d know 75% of the captains are 10+ years seniority. With that comes experience. The state of this shitty industry today is full of inexperience. Do you think management really cares about the revolving door going to greener pastures? It’s a pilots market and I’m not saying they won’t be able to use that to their advantage during the next round, but when we negotiated the current contract, I can assure you we all agreed what was best for retaining experience. So far it’s working.....the more dentrament part of the operation is working for EIC and merging with Perimeter.
If they’re still getting away with having a bond, there isn’t truly a shortage yet.
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digits_
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Re: Bearskin info

#10 Post by digits_ » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:44 pm

Maynard wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:30 pm
If you knew the roster there you’d know 75% of the captains are 10+ years seniority. With that comes experience.
I know some people there, doesn't seem to be the case anymore. My sources say 50% of 10+, and then a big gap of 50% 1-2 year. Makes you wonder why nobody wants to bridge the gap.

Unless I am mistaken, some of your other posts seem to indicate you've moved on as well.

Just like you could say "new guys don't stay anyway, so why pay them more", you could also pose "the senior guys don't seem to be leaving, so why pay them more".
Maynard wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:30 pm
The state of this shitty industry today is full of inexperience. Do you think management really cares about the revolving door going to greener pastures? It’s a pilots market and I’m not saying they won’t be able to use that to their advantage during the next round, but when we negotiated the current contract, I can assure you we all agreed what was best for retaining experience. So far it’s working.....the more dentrament part of the operation is working for EIC and merging with Perimeter.
I would hope they do at least a little bit. Training pilots is expensive. If a bigger raise results in them staying longer, you might come out ahead.
If they truly don't care about the junior guys, that would explain the pay scale. Their perogative of course.

How would they hope to attract experience, if the pay barely goes up every year? I doubt high time guys who would love to fly out of thunder bay would have time left to stick around for the salary to become worth it. It's not bad pay, but if you are experienced, there are better options out there.
Maynard wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:30 pm
If they’re still getting away with having a bond, there isn’t truly a shortage yet.
No bond for captains
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Re: Bearskin info

#11 Post by Maynard » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:54 pm

No bond for DEC, however 90% of hiring is still FOs. The problem with higher experienced guys not wanting to work there is because of the Seniority. Are their better gigs in Tbay? Maybe. But when you compare every other airline, they all have downfalls. Like I said, it’s a pilots market. Eventually the pay will have to go up no doubt. EIC keeps them on a tight leash. What I do know, you could pay someone 200k and they probably still wouldn’t go to fly a metro for longer than a few years if they planned on going to AC or any other 705. The way she goes. And yes, I have moved on, but it had nothing to do with the pay or contract.
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PA-18
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Re: Bearskin info

#12 Post by PA-18 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:39 am

Wow. Unfortunate they went this route for in contract 6 Lowering the bar for new hires while protecting the top and the current roster at the time. Creating a divided group with a protected pay scale. 2012 FO started at $30.00. Jump to 2020. 8 years later guys planned to start at a $31.00 No wonder the junior turnover. I have to agree with seniority system contributing to this as well. Lots of senior captains. Contract rules look ok though.
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dogfood
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Re: Bearskin info

#13 Post by dogfood » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:46 am

Jeez is that all there paying for fos ? with the new minimum wage I imagine they don't even make that and you gotta pay for your job. I hear the turn over there Is 3 to 6 months I wonder why..
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bobcaygeon
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Re: Bearskin info

#14 Post by bobcaygeon » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:07 am

dogfood wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:46 am
Jeez is that all there paying for fos ? with the new minimum wage I imagine they don't even make that and you gotta pay for your job. I hear the turn over there Is 3 to 6 months I wonder why..
When you don't usually hire 250 hr wonders, usually about 1000 hrs, Porter, Encore and Jazz start calling after a couple of months. 5K more isn't going to keep most of them around.

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dogfood
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Re: Bearskin info

#15 Post by dogfood » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:21 pm

I agree but at that wage is anyone going stick around for a captain position? Ive heard its a decent place to work maybe captains are not leaving and they dont need to upgrade
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