Jazz or CargoJet?

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Blueshift
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by Blueshift » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:54 am

sicamore wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:20 pm
Upgrade requirements will not have changed from the above last CBA.

Once you have met this upgrade will be in order of seniority, skill and performance. Usually ascertained from results from last Sims and how you would fair in a leadership role.

Needless to say I don't think you would be looking at left seat on a widebody with less than 5000 hours. At 1500 starting and 400 hours a year you will realistically be looking at 8-10 years
Thanks for link. I think the 3500hrs total time and 1500hrs on type is the upgrade matrix most applicable to me. Still, that would certainly take a few years to reach.

Is 400hrs a year the norm there? Surely a couple YHM/CVG-YYC/YVR/YEG flights per week and one CVG-YMX/YHM would be enough to average 80 hour blocks per month?

fish4life wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:46 pm
I think the lifestyle killing you is referring to any cargo operator since you are predominantly flying all night which destroys the body over the long term.
tps8903 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:46 am
+1.

Don't care who you are the night shifts eventually do everyone in. It's just not sustainable on your body long term. It messes everything up.

Can one do it? Yeah, but it will take its toll.

I did night for 15 years. The first 5 in my early 20's were easy, then it got harder and harder. I've never felt better now that I don't do them anymore.
I would agree that night shift work doesn't seem overly desirable long-term. I'm in my 20s though, so I think I shouldn't have trouble handling it for a while. I'm more worried the effect it will have on my social life.
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sicamore
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by sicamore » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:01 am

Rmvd
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Last edited by sicamore on Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kemmc
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by kemmc » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:19 am

are many people getting interviews or offers?
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Xonga013
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by Xonga013 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:18 am

What are the pairings like at CJ? How many days
On the road max?

Thx
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Blueshift
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by Blueshift » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:21 pm

sicamore wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:01 am
400 is the norm yes. At the moment some captains may be doing 600 due to shortage.

As for social life, good luck on that. Otherwise in your 20s is the best time. It's not a bad job, pairings are fairly relaxed, weekends generally off somewhere, so flight days only about 8 days a month. Aircraft are exceptionally well maintained and management are very professional.

Union is about as useful as tits on a bull though.
Do you find the social life issue extremely difficult, with only 8 days worked/month and 400hrs per year?

Yeah, now would likely be the best time in terms of fatigue, but potentially not so in terms of life outside work.

Have you found the union has successfully improved schedules at least?
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Picesprick
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by Picesprick » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:39 pm

With the new CBA just ratified, Pilots will bid 16 days a month. You now bid your stats in a 5 day block and a 4 day block, after 1 year you are alloted 3 weeks vacation, 4 after 10, 5 after 20. So you can deduct these of some of your months. This has been and will continue to be a contencious issue among the group, company wanted more days work, pilots didnt. They met in the middle. Pay saw some pretty big increases, 1st year fo 70k after 4 or 5 years your over 100k. 10 year fo tops at 119k right now with 2% annual increases across the board. Captain start is 125k 12 year is just over 200k, after 5 years your at 170k year. Overtime is 2x but its pretty hard to get.

Pairings usually start just after midnight and generally are 2-5 days ending anywhere from 1230 am till 9pm. its all about bidding days of work here so most guys will try to get the few pairings that leave at say 1155pm ( a day of work for an hour) and also the ones that get back earlier in the morning( another day of work), the few really good ones go senior. But it all depends on how many specific days off you want in there, the more guys try to nail down a schedule the less forgiving the schedule seems to end up, The first night is usually pretty tough unless you can get a good nap in the day before, but the duty days usually are not that long minus a few, so you suck up the first night and then I quote " get used to it" :lol:. But you are usually a bag of shit the day after a pairing when you get back at 4 am or something. For some reason its very hard to get 7-8 hours of sleep when you are going to bed at 6 or 7 am. Unlike when you were a teenager. You need to respect your sleep, keep track of it, try to get it, do what you can, ie exercise, melatonin, otherwise the job will tear you apart. If you can figure it out, its not all that bad.

Perdiem 3.75CDN hour, anywhere for duration on CBA, not indexed to inflation, why?? who knows.. which means you do ok in Canada but if you go to europe better carry a cooler.

Hotels are another irritant among the group, some of the locations your options for getting food are very limited, company didnt budge much and Union didnt fight very hard to get that changed. Bw, Hampton Inns, Holiday Inns, YHZ weekend get you the Westin downtown but its a senior run.

RRSP 3%,,,, yeah thats right 3 %,....goes up to 4 after 5 I think but im not double checking, 6% after 15 was another sweet score the negotiators got. :roll:

Medical is apparently very good and paid for by the company, but it is a very hard thing to compare IMO.

Work Life balance has been pretty good, seems like lots of time off, with the extra days of work that will effectively kick in next year we will see, might be a little buyers remorse when guys are working 16 days in a 30 day month.

Commuters can DH on company aircraft to and from where they live and we are just getting started with the myid travel program, nobody knows how easy it will be to travel but expectations are low.

Union has been all volunteer work for the last 5 years, in this contract we secured paid days for union duties so we shall see if that helps solidify some people in the MEC positions, Lots of people like to bitch about how innefective our union is and has been but nobody wants to step up and do the job, because it does seem like a thankless position. The last 5 years the union was toothless maybe going forward we can grow some baby teeth.

Company itself is solid, effectivley has a monopoly. Long term contracts and there size now make it very difficult for a competetor to break into the space. The growth opportunities are very promising. Would make for a stable long term career path if you dont need the glory of walking through the terminal with your hat on signing autographs like Leo, arm and arm with a bunch of hot flight attendants. Thats what I imagine im missing out on anyways.

Upgrade times now are at about 2-3 years

excuse any spelling or garammer mistakes, Im a cargo pilot :)
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Xonga013
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by Xonga013 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:27 pm

Nice. Thanks for the detailed post. One more question, is the training done in Canada or
US?

Thx
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Picesprick
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by Picesprick » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:47 pm

Wherever there are sim slots. Usually Atlanta or Miami. Recurrent in YVR. For now...
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Blueshift
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by Blueshift » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:26 am

Thanks a bunch for the in-depth info picesprick!
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atphat
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by atphat » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:41 am

Picesprick wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:39 pm
Would make for a stable long term career path if you dont need the glory of walking through the terminal with your hat on signing autographs like Leo, arm and arm with a bunch of hot flight attendants. Thats what I imagine im missing out on anyways.
LOL
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Tincan
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by Tincan » Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:22 am

Morale is good? Maybe since they started carrying pot!
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GATRKGA
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by GATRKGA » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:55 am

Picesprick wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:39 pm
With the new CBA just ratified, Pilots will bid 16 days a month. You now bid your stats in a 5 day block and a 4 day block, after 1 year you are alloted 3 weeks vacation, 4 after 10, 5 after 20. So you can deduct these of some of your months. This has been and will continue to be a contencious issue among the group, company wanted more days work, pilots didnt. They met in the middle. Pay saw some pretty big increases, 1st year fo 70k after 4 or 5 years your over 100k. 10 year fo tops at 119k right now with 2% annual increases across the board. Captain start is 125k 12 year is just over 200k, after 5 years your at 170k year. Overtime is 2x but its pretty hard to get.

Pairings usually start just after midnight and generally are 2-5 days ending anywhere from 1230 am till 9pm. its all about bidding days of work here so most guys will try to get the few pairings that leave at say 1155pm ( a day of work for an hour) and also the ones that get back earlier in the morning( another day of work), the few really good ones go senior. But it all depends on how many specific days off you want in there, the more guys try to nail down a schedule the less forgiving the schedule seems to end up, The first night is usually pretty tough unless you can get a good nap in the day before, but the duty days usually are not that long minus a few, so you suck up the first night and then I quote " get used to it" :lol:. But you are usually a bag of shit the day after a pairing when you get back at 4 am or something. For some reason its very hard to get 7-8 hours of sleep when you are going to bed at 6 or 7 am. Unlike when you were a teenager. You need to respect your sleep, keep track of it, try to get it, do what you can, ie exercise, melatonin, otherwise the job will tear you apart. If you can figure it out, its not all that bad.

Perdiem 3.75CDN hour, anywhere for duration on CBA, not indexed to inflation, why?? who knows.. which means you do ok in Canada but if you go to europe better carry a cooler.

Hotels are another irritant among the group, some of the locations your options for getting food are very limited, company didnt budge much and Union didnt fight very hard to get that changed. Bw, Hampton Inns, Holiday Inns, YHZ weekend get you the Westin downtown but its a senior run.

RRSP 3%,,,, yeah thats right 3 %,....goes up to 4 after 5 I think but im not double checking, 6% after 15 was another sweet score the negotiators got. :roll:

Medical is apparently very good and paid for by the company, but it is a very hard thing to compare IMO.

Work Life balance has been pretty good, seems like lots of time off, with the extra days of work that will effectively kick in next year we will see, might be a little buyers remorse when guys are working 16 days in a 30 day month.

Commuters can DH on company aircraft to and from where they live and we are just getting started with the myid travel program, nobody knows how easy it will be to travel but expectations are low.

Union has been all volunteer work for the last 5 years, in this contract we secured paid days for union duties so we shall see if that helps solidify some people in the MEC positions, Lots of people like to bitch about how innefective our union is and has been but nobody wants to step up and do the job, because it does seem like a thankless position. The last 5 years the union was toothless maybe going forward we can grow some baby teeth.

Company itself is solid, effectivley has a monopoly. Long term contracts and there size now make it very difficult for a competetor to break into the space. The growth opportunities are very promising. Would make for a stable long term career path if you dont need the glory of walking through the terminal with your hat on signing autographs like Leo, arm and arm with a bunch of hot flight attendants. Thats what I imagine im missing out on anyways.

Upgrade times now are at about 2-3 years

excuse any spelling or garammer mistakes, Im a cargo pilot :)

I hear per diems are around 15-20k per year. Does that sound about right?

Thanks!
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Picesprick
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by Picesprick » Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:08 pm

no, at 3.75 an hour, that would be crazy..
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FL007
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by FL007 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:14 pm

Picesprick wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:08 pm
no, at 3.75 an hour, that would be crazy..
Not really, a 4 day pairing is 360ish dollars, and if you work 16 days a month that's $1440x12 months is 18k.

How are you guys not getting that? Not working 16 days a month? Not all overnights, etc?
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Picesprick
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by Picesprick » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:09 am

FL007 wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:14 pm
Picesprick wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:08 pm
no, at 3.75 an hour, that would be crazy..
Not really, a 4 day pairing is 360ish dollars, and if you work 16 days a month that's $1440x12 months is 18k.

How are you guys not getting that? Not working 16 days a month? Not all overnights, etc?


Most pairings get back at about 4 am or so, therefore you are not gone for entire 24 hour blocks for every day of work also including single day pairings, with 3 weeks vacation, and your 2 biddable stat weeks, your only working 16 days a month for 7 months of the year. After 10 years its down to 6 months of the year as you get 4 weeks vacation.
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GATRKGA
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by GATRKGA » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:18 pm

What is a realistic year to date for your per diems? I as well thought that 15-20k made sense.

Thanks!
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Picesprick
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by Picesprick » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:14 am

Id guess around 7-10k depending on schedule,
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eyebrow737
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by eyebrow737 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:02 am

Picesprick wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:14 am
Id guess around 7-10k depending on schedule,
I wouldn't count that as income. You spend many weekends and nights in a hotel room.
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jorgeherrera.ca
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by jorgeherrera.ca » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:20 pm

Tincan wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:22 am
Morale is good? Maybe since they started carrying pot!
man...with a much higher than average pay, good solid company, and for what i hear very well maintained planes, how can morale be anything but good? plus, as some say, cargo never complains :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:31 pm

Average for where? Nigeria? 767 FO making 60k...at least it’s more than AC I guess
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Picesprick
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by Picesprick » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:25 am

JohnnyHotRocks wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:31 pm
Average for where? Nigeria? 767 FO making 60k...at least it’s more than AC I guess

Dude read the thread!

Dont just come in and start throwing around ignorant shit, you loose credibility.

FO starts at 70k and is 120k after 10 years, add %2 year onto those numbers.

Pay is not the problem.
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Picesprick
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by Picesprick » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:29 am

:roll: :roll: Any other life tips on what I should or shouldn't do.

Maybe he was curious as to how fancy he could live on the road, I think ppl know perdiems are not income.


eyebrow737 wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:02 am
Picesprick wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:14 am
Id guess around 7-10k depending on schedule,
I wouldn't count that as income. You spend many weekends and nights in a hotel room.
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:36 am

70k in a 767 isn’t a problem????
I did read the thread...the pay is disgusting
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by Lightchop » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:50 am

JohnnyHotRocks wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:36 am
70k in a 767 isn’t a problem????
I did read the thread...the pay is disgusting
Haha yah. You can go fly a 67 in Japan on a commuting contract and start at 135k USD. Canadian pay in general is a joke.
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Picesprick
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Re: Jazz or CargoJet?

Post by Picesprick » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:06 am

You can go fly a 67 in Japan for 135k, but first you have to GET that job, just like the jobs in China, they dont give them to anyone, need a bit of time on type, then commute to Asia for the rest of your career. Not for everyone.

Johnny we know Canadian Aviation pay is shitty, Im sure on the aircraft you fly would fetch more overseas or south of the border, but within Canada, the Cargojet payscale is not bad at face value relative to the rest of the Canadian industry.
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