Huge discouragement

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cdnpilot77
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Re: Huge discouragement

#76 Post by cdnpilot77 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:01 pm

But this:
Sorry I don't kiss backsides to get ahead. It's morally wrong in my opinion. My beliefs such as that one should not prevent one from an Airline position.


just shows a complete lack of understanding of people. Roadrunnersmother, Your words are remarkably similar to a "King Air pilot" a year or 2 ago who had the exact same issues and responses
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Re: Huge discouragement

#77 Post by schnitzel2k3 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:08 pm

tsukubacpe wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:17 pm
Hey everyone,

My discouragement right now is below the floor. I know all of us, new pilots with 250 hours struggle a lot but I didn't think it would so be hard.
I finished school in September and began my search for my first flying job in December. I have sent over 150 resumes to all possible 702/703 operators in Canada. I am 100% willing to move and still nothing. Absolutely nothing. I tried 95% of the skydiving operators but most of them require minimum 300 hours and
25 hours on type which they mostly use a c185.
I haven't even been offered a ramp position....not that I would take it because I believe and still have high hopes of landing my first job flying but man this is crazy.
I have seen quite a bit of ads for float positions but I don't have my float rating and a lot of them require minimum 50 hours on floats.
I don't know what else to do
Sometimes carpet bombing the industry with a generic 250 hour resume doesn't help.

Have someone take a peek at your resume and cover letter. In this section, xsbank has posted resume help sticky.

Highly suggest, pick 3 of your top operations, reach out as best as you can (LinkedIn, phone, etc), get a line of communication going, then jump in the car and go out to shake hands, with a fresh personalized resume.

Good luck bud,

S.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#78 Post by schnitzel2k3 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:11 pm

Flightpath CP wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:00 pm
Networking is the key. We have hired several sub-300-hour guys. A few directly into jets. These people came with incredible character references, which means more than the logbook to me.

Cheers

Good luck!
+1 to this.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#79 Post by Roadrunnersmother » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:15 pm

cdnpilot77 wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:01 pm
But this:
Sorry I don't kiss backsides to get ahead. It's morally wrong in my opinion. My beliefs such as that one should not prevent one from an Airline position.


just shows a complete lack of understanding of people. Roadrunnersmother, Your words are remarkably similar to a "King Air pilot" a year or 2 ago who had the exact same issues and responses
Did they end up with Airline position?
Likely I'm not the only candidate in the same boat.
Instead of trashing me, words of wisdom would be more useful.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#80 Post by cdnpilot77 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:58 pm

I am not trashing you. You have been given good advice above and when that same advice was given before to the same question, the exact same response was given. There is work that needs to be done to move forward. Networking is not ass kissing. Learn the difference and it will be the key to unlocking your dilemma. Or keep trolling :smt102
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Re: Huge discouragement

#81 Post by Roadrunnersmother » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:34 pm

cdnpilot77 wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:58 pm
I am not trashing you. You have been given good advice above and when that same advice was given before to the same question, the exact same response was given. There is work that needs to be done to move forward. Networking is not ass kissing. Learn the difference and it will be the key to unlocking your dilemma. Or keep trolling :smt102
Networking is another word for backside kissing. Why doesn't ones experience count for much?
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Re: Huge discouragement

#82 Post by DanWEC » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:06 pm

I'll bite just for a moment, Pinocchio, and pretend that you just might be a real boy. If so, there are a whole docket of issues with your entire approach and you need to be open to some help, which many of us, including myself, have offered in other threads you've polluted.

Ever heard the expression about leading a horse to water? I don't know which of your realities is more questionable. My only possible conclusions are A) Fake posts -or- B) It's blatantly obvious at this point why you aren't being hired. If B, sorry to be harsh but the reasons are clear.

Best of luck.


(Edit, just saw that cdnpilot77 above echoed my sentiments, but I'll leave this up anyhow.)
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Re: Huge discouragement

#83 Post by Roadrunnersmother » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:17 pm

DanWEC wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:06 pm
I'll bite just for a moment, Pinocchio, and pretend that you just might be a real boy. If so, there are a whole docket of issues with your entire approach and you need to be open to some help, which many of us, including myself, have offered in other threads you've polluted.

Ever heard the expression about leading a horse to water? I don't know which of your realities is more questionable. My only possible conclusions are A) Fake posts -or- B) Pretty obvious why you aren't being hired. If B, sorry to be harsh but the reasons are clear.

Best of luck.
It's not obvious why I'm not getting hired.
I apply and don't receive job offer.
Please tell me another way to apply?
It's not as obvious as some of you think it is.
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a313
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Re: Huge discouragement

#84 Post by a313 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:19 pm

Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:34 pm
cdnpilot77 wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:58 pm
I am not trashing you. You have been given good advice above and when that same advice was given before to the same question, the exact same response was given. There is work that needs to be done to move forward. Networking is not ass kissing. Learn the difference and it will be the key to unlocking your dilemma. Or keep trolling :smt102
Networking is another word for backside kissing. Why doesn't ones experience count for much?
It may be, but these days it's all about networking. I know ALOT of people who got in somewhere because they knew someone or had formed a network of aquitances... Now that doesn't mean you can't get a job without networking. I personally have had interviews just by directly applying with my resume. I don't see why this is backside kissing

Given this, I have found that in aviation networking counts quite a bit...


Regarding the original post, I have applied to several flying positions and I got one call. That one call led to an interview which ended with "we really like you, your attitude, your knowledge and would love to bring you on board, but we don't feel comfortable with a 250 hour pilot... Maybe 800 or so hours and we'd feel more comfortable.."

I was so confused and annoyed at the same time. They saw my resume and it clearly stated 250 hours. Why they wasted their time and my time interviewing me I will never understand

This interview more or less made me give up on aviation at this point. Being called for an interview to fly a plane for minimum wage and almost max duty days and then being told sorry you're too inexperienced is really sad... I love flying and as stupid as it sounds I actually would've taken the job only because of some of the other "perks". Now I'm interviewing for jobs in another industry that pay almost double the starting salary at jazz...
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Re: Huge discouragement

#85 Post by Roadrunnersmother » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:30 pm

I paid Pilot Career Center couple hundred to produce professional cover letter and resume. I was under impression it would lead to multiple opportunities for Airline position.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#86 Post by TheRealMcCoy » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:50 pm

Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:30 pm
I paid Pilot Career Center couple hundred to produce professional cover letter and resume. I was under impression it would lead to multiple opportunities for Airline position.
Oh my sweet fcuk hahahaha.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#87 Post by Roadrunnersmother » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:07 pm

TheRealMcCoy wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:50 pm
Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:30 pm
I paid Pilot Career Center couple hundred to produce professional cover letter and resume. I was under impression it would lead to multiple opportunities for Airline position.
Oh my sweet fcuk hahahaha.
May I ask what's so hahahaha?
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Re: Huge discouragement

#88 Post by schnitzel2k3 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:27 pm

Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:34 pm
cdnpilot77 wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:58 pm
I am not trashing you. You have been given good advice above and when that same advice was given before to the same question, the exact same response was given. There is work that needs to be done to move forward. Networking is not ass kissing. Learn the difference and it will be the key to unlocking your dilemma. Or keep trolling :smt102
Networking is another word for backside kissing. Why doesn't ones experience count for much?
Because personality is everything in aviation, even more so in business aviation because you're not just directly responsible for your crew, you have an owner that you deal directly with. Networking is NOT NOT NOT a$$ kissing. Networking is keeping an open line of communication with people whether you know them well or not.

Once your garner a little light hearted personality and charm, you'll find networking doesn't require you to get on your knees and pucker up.

S.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#89 Post by Roadrunnersmother » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:48 pm

schnitzel2k3 wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:27 pm
Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:34 pm
cdnpilot77 wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:58 pm
I am not trashing you. You have been given good advice above and when that same advice was given before to the same question, the exact same response was given. There is work that needs to be done to move forward. Networking is not ass kissing. Learn the difference and it will be the key to unlocking your dilemma. Or keep trolling :smt102
Networking is another word for backside kissing. Why doesn't ones experience count for much?
Because personality is everything in aviation, even more so in business aviation because you're not just directly responsible for your crew, you have an owner that you deal directly with. Networking is NOT NOT NOT a$$ kissing. Networking is keeping an open line of communication with people whether you know them well or not.

Once your garner a little light hearted personality and charm, you'll find networking doesn't require you to get on your knees and pucker up.

S.
My line is open, no job offers from any airline to date.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#90 Post by Alcoholism » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:25 pm

Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:35 am
TheRealMcCoy wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:29 am
Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:42 pm
Which Airline?
Air Canada. Went to flight school, got a degree, then took a few years off and worked in the oil patch, did some geo technical drilling, drove truck a bit and then sent em a resume and got in!
I will apply but likely waste of time.
If I can't get offered an FO position at EVAS or Air Georgian on 1900 I highly doubt AC will put me on a jet.
I dunno..... you seem like AC material to me.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#91 Post by Roadrunnersmother » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:28 pm

Alcoholism wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:25 pm
Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:35 am
TheRealMcCoy wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:29 am


Air Canada. Went to flight school, got a degree, then took a few years off and worked in the oil patch, did some geo technical drilling, drove truck a bit and then sent em a resume and got in!
I will apply but likely waste of time.
If I can't get offered an FO position at EVAS or Air Georgian on 1900 I highly doubt AC will put me on a jet.
I dunno..... you seem like AC material to me.

Possibly, a few past crew members of mine are flying there and they were no better than me.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#92 Post by digits_ » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:13 pm

DanWEC wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:27 pm
Well, that and you don't exist, so there's that....
Best insult on AvCanada in a long time. Classy yet destructive. General yet personal. Impressive!
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Re: Huge discouragement

#93 Post by TT1900 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:14 pm

Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:28 pm
Alcoholism wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:25 pm
Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:35 am


I will apply but likely waste of time.
If I can't get offered an FO position at EVAS or Air Georgian on 1900 I highly doubt AC will put me on a jet.
I dunno..... you seem like AC material to me.

Possibly, a few past crew members of mine are flying there and they were no better than me.
You sure about that?
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Re: Huge discouragement

#94 Post by Roadrunnersmother » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:23 pm

TT1900 wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:14 pm
Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:28 pm
Alcoholism wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:25 pm


I dunno..... you seem like AC material to me.

Possibly, a few past crew members of mine are flying there and they were no better than me.
You sure about that?
Yes Im very sure.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#95 Post by planett » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:36 pm

I'm looking for an FO who can "Angle the deflector shields while I make the calculations for the jump to hyperspace." You seem qualified for that. Are you interested?
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Re: Huge discouragement

#96 Post by Roadrunnersmother » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:43 pm

planett wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:36 pm
I'm looking for an FO who can "Angle the deflector shields while I make the calculations for the jump to hyperspace." You seem qualified for that. Are you interested?
Still looking? You said same thing couple years ago.
Your sense of humour is a joke.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#97 Post by x15 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:59 pm

Many many moons ago I was at Landmark really early one day for a flight across the ocean. I got my airplane ready to go and then had some time to kill while I waited for the skipper to show up.

I bumped into a couple of airline guys. I stood around with a coffee in my hand while they bitched nonstop back and forth about this and that. They complained about how they thought they should be given this or given that, because they have this many hours and this many years of seniority.

When there was a break, I did something I do not normally do, I said something. I thought it was constructive.

I said, the reason you are not getting hired by such and such is because you are a piece of S#!t. His eyes began to bulge and for a second I thought he was going to punch me before I could explain what I meant. I clarified by saying that I stood there and watched him piss moan and complain about this guy and that guy and that subject and that MEL etc for an hour. In an hour I did not hear a single good thing about anything.... I said you are like a big festering pile of s#!t. Tomorrow AC calls and says you have an interview. You go out, get a haircut, a new suit and a 20 dollar shave. I told him he was basically rolling that POS around in sprinkles and sparkles and trying to pass it off as a chocolate sprinkle donut.

An HR person that is worth a darn, is going to know in 10 seconds that the suit, tie and haircut are simply sprinkles on top of something that is already quite off kilter. Something won't add up and they will pass.

You want a job? Be excited, be happy, have a positive mindset. Generate skills and abilities outside of the flight-deck that are appealing to employers. Let other people see those skills, someone else telling the boss you are a great guy will go way further that you telling someone you are a great guy. Stop whinging about not getting a job simply because you have a license.

HR doesn't care about your logbook as much as you think they do. They care about the attitude you have hiding under the sparkles. Make sure it is the one they want and you will have your pick of places to go.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#98 Post by Roadrunnersmother » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:06 pm

x15 wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:59 pm
Many many moons ago I was at Landmark really early one day for a flight across the ocean. I got my airplane ready to go and then had some time to kill while I waited for the skipper to show up.

I bumped into a couple of airline guys. I stood around with a coffee in my hand while they bitched nonstop back and forth about this and that. They complained about how they thought they should be given this or given that, because they have this many hours and this many years of seniority.

When there was a break, I did something I do not normally do, I said something. I thought it was constructive.

I said, the reason you are not getting hired by such and such is because you are a piece of S#!t. His eyes began to bulge and for a second I thought he was going to punch me before I could explain what I meant. I clarified by saying that I stood there and watched him piss moan and complain about this guy and that guy and that subject and that MEL etc for an hour. In an hour I did not hear a single good thing about anything.... I said you are like a big festering pile of s#!t. Tomorrow AC calls and says you have an interview. You go out, get a haircut, a new suit and a 20 dollar shave. I told him he was basically rolling that POS around in sprinkles and sparkles and trying to pass it off as a chocolate sprinkle donut.

An HR person that is worth a darn, is going to know in 10 seconds that the suit, tie and haircut are simply sprinkles on top of something that is already quite off kilter. Something won't add up and they will pass.

You want a job? Be excited, be happy, have a positive mindset. Generate skills and abilities outside of the flight-deck that are appealing to employers. Let other people see those skills, someone else telling the boss you are a great guy will go way further that you telling someone you are a great guy. Stop whinging about not getting a job simply because you have a license.

HR doesn't care about your logbook as much as you think they do. They care about the attitude you have hiding under the sparkles. Make sure it is the one they want and you will have your pick of places to go.
My attitude is great.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#99 Post by Diadem » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:29 pm

Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:06 pm
My attitude is great.
Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:35 am
I will apply but likely waste of time.
Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:28 pm
Possibly, a few past crew members of mine are flying there and they were no better than me.
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Re: Huge discouragement

#100 Post by planett » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:51 am

M'Kay, I need those TPS reports this afternoon.
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