Upgrades? Probably similar too.
Jazz has jets FWIW.
I'd go wherever called me first.
I'd go wherever paid better and offered a better lifestyle.
Besides that I'd go with an Express carrier but I'm biased.
So they’re hiring FO’s from Encore?
I’m fairly certain those in the last AC GS were at Encore over two years and had a significant background in aviation.
I’d say jazz and encore are about dead even overall. Jazz pilots work a bit less and have a bit better lifestyle.. and it can Be made into a career. Encore has a better arrangement for moving towards narrow and wide body jets with its pilot group afforded both the one list flow to mainline and the opportunity to still easily be selected by AC.
Upgrades seems to happen quickly for many at both. Just in different manners. Jazz via seniority and encore via its matrix.
They both have yyc and yyz bases. Jazz also has Yvr and yul.
Socialized bidding for sched at encore may sound great to the junior folk, but it’s still a marginal schedule. Seniority bidding also has its faults at jazz. While our reserve rules are good.. it’s still not for everyone.
I’d say from my experience that encore has a much better means for commuting and travel amongst the WJ network. Jazz struggles with low priority on AC network and nothing for the first six months.
Good peoples at both and it really boils down to where you want to live, where you are in your career and what your end goal is. Both are reasonable options
A couple further points:
-don't go to either solely for the flow or guaranteed interview
-do you have a degree or aviation diploma? Though there are some exceptions, this seems to still be a limiting factor for getting to AC from either PMA or OTS (though I could definitely see them loosening this requirement). It's not a strict requirement for WJ.
-Where do you want to live? If you only want Calgary or Toronto, you can usually choose or get a quick transfer with Encore. With Jazz, you may luck out and get the base you want, or you may not and it may take a bid or two. I don't get the sense it's been super long for most people recently, but still, I've known a few folks who have had to commute YVR to YUL for 6-8 months. If at all possible, I would suggest avoiding commuting long term for a regional. Sometimes it can't be avoided, and it's definitely possible, but it sure is tiring. For some, commuting isn't too big a deal, for others it's a deal breaker.
-Rowdy makes a good point with regard to the schedule. While it can completely depend on the person/bid/GS, I get the sense that for the first 6-12 months, you'll probably get a better schedule/lifestyle/ability to commute with Encore. But it's still a challenging schedule and with socialized bidding it means it's not really going to get any better - that's a challenging feeling when you're exhausted and flow is years away. With Jazz, even though it's probably a tougher schedule the first little while, it does have the potential to get better as you gain seniority. How much better is tough to say as it's all relative. Recently there's been lots of movement up the seniority list but past results doesn't guarantee future performance.
-Encore will, eventually, get you to WJ mainline. How quickly is a matter of discussion/debate. Jazz will offer you a guaranteed interview - again, how quickly is up for debate/discussion and how successful you'll be could vary. The benefit is that Jazz is a place that you can make a career out of. I'd argue that Encore doesn't offer that at the moment - though perhaps will after a new CBA.
Good options to have.
That’s pretty terrible advice. Taking into account “what we know today”, if Mainline is your goal you should only go to which regional either provides you flow or a guaranteed interview and your quickest path to mainline, and an option if the dreaded PFO comes. Unless you don’t mind hanging in the regionals for your career. Then pick the best regional. (Keeping in mind that will change ALOT over your career)
No offence to the regionals.
sole·ly (ˈsō(l)lē/) adverb: not involving anyone or anything else; only.atphat wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 11:37 pmThat’s pretty terrible advice. Taking into account “what we know today”, if Mainline is your goal you should only go to which regional either provides you flow or a guaranteed interview and your quickest path to mainline, and an option if the dreaded PFO comes. Unless you don’t mind hanging in the regionals for your career. Then pick the best regional. (Keeping in mind that will change ALOT over your career)
No offence to the regionals.
Flow or a guaranteed interview should definitely be a consideration when making a career decision, but it shouldn't be the only factor. If you are taking a job solely for where it could get you in 3,5 or 10 years with no other input as to wages, working conditions, base, lifestyle etc, it will make you pretty miserable for those 3,5 or 10 years.
All that being said, last year when WJ mainline was hiring OTS and AC's hires since last fall have all included a not insignificant number of pilots from sources other than their respective regionals. It's a moot point for this particular thread as the poster only wants input on Encore or Jazz (which both have some sort of flow / interview), but I still contend that going to a regional that has flow/guaranteed interview may be the right decision for many pilots, but definitely not all.
But I do agree with you, things can change a lot, and will.