Cathay Looking For Canadians

Got a hot employment or interview tip to help a fellow aviator find a job or looking for a little job advice place your posting here.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore

Wooly Mammoth
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:19 pm

Cathay Looking For Canadians

Post by Wooly Mammoth »

Gents and Gals

Cathay is losing pilots at a prodigious rate. They are hunting hard to fill cockpits while at the same time eroding the conditions of service. Make no mistake, you do not want to work at Cathay. There are plenty of resources out there to help you learn why, suffice to say the place is not like it used to be.

Forewarned

Wooly
---------- ADS -----------
 
mixturerich
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 344
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:04 pm

Re: Cathay Looking For Canadians

Post by mixturerich »

When will these companies realize that it really is all about the pilots, and not about the money? I’m not being sarcastic. If they took better care of their employees and compensated them fairly, they wouldn’t have run into this problem. Corporate greed always seem to f*ck everything up in the long run.

Seriously, if the compensation package over there was actually attractive, I might actually be inclined to leave this wonderful country and go live in China instead, but it’s not.
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Cathay Looking For Canadians

Post by altiplano »

I have no doubt that Cathay Pacific is not what it used to be...

But why are you still there then "Wooly Mamoth"?

And what draws you to this forum as a first post to forewarn Canadians that they don't want to work at Cathay?

My best guess? Cadet SO stuck under a training/upgrade freeze watching expats from Canada, Australia, whatever, come in DEFO on the 777 or 350 while you watch from the back seat.

Maybe I wrong, but I don't judge, everyone has there own self serving motives for sure.

If I was younger and single on a turboprop, or at a regional, or turned down at the large Canadian airlines and wanting a few years of new experience and a type rating I would certainly consider it... I've had lots of fun in HKG over the years. It's a good city, actually it's a great city, it might belong to China, but it's not 'China', plus great proximity for travel opportunities and a good climate. Certainly would offer a better lifestyle than as an expat in the ME or Mainland China IMO... If I was stuck on a northern base in a clapped out metro or something it would be an easy choice to head to HKG for a try. Easy to walk if it didn't work out and get a job back here...

Anyway, good luck with whatever is going on with the recent contract.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
C-GGGQ
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2050
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Cathay Looking For Canadians

Post by C-GGGQ »

538000 SO and 825000 FO a year can't to be difficult even taking into account cost of living.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Sharklasers
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 5:24 pm

Re: Cathay Looking For Canadians

Post by Sharklasers »

C-GGGQ wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:50 pm 538000 SO and 825000 FO a year can't to be difficult even taking into account cost of living.
Those are Hong Kong Dollars,
So $110000 CAD.
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Cathay Looking For Canadians

Post by altiplano »

825K HKD? So roughly 150K CAD? Just to start I think?

I have a few FO buddies there and I'm pretty certain they were a fair bit higher than that but we haven't compared pay stubbs in a while...

They give you a pile of cash to set up in the city too when you join IIRC... Maybe equivalent $30K or something.

Plus a living allowance in a city priced similar or somewhat higher than YVR, but low taxes at least...

Anyways... If I were staring at the winter setting in in Fort Nowhere or Lake Bullshit with an ATPL, a few thousand hours, and no Jet operators calling me in Canada I know where I'd be applying... at least for the paid trip down there for an interview and cocktails... like a mini-adventure.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
C-GGGQ
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2050
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Cathay Looking For Canadians

Post by C-GGGQ »

Sharklasers wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:20 pm
C-GGGQ wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:50 pm 538000 SO and 825000 FO a year can't to be difficult even taking into account cost of living.
Those are Hong Kong Dollars,
So $110000 CAD.
Yeah roughly 95 and 130 cad respectively
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
daedalusx
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 612
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:51 am

Re: Cathay Looking For Canadians

Post by daedalusx »

If Cathay, Emirates, Ethiad and others want Canadian pilots, they only need to do all of 3 things:
- Decent schedule work/family lifestyle
- Bring back pilot domiciles with confirmed commuting out of YVR, YYZ and maybe YYC and YUL. I believe a few Japanese carriers are doing it out of YVR with great success and they aren't bleeding crews like Emirates and others.
- Treat their crews fairly. There's been a lot of complaints on how some overseas carriers treat their expats crews as they see them as totally replaceable part of a big machine.

That's it ... Because they wouldn't have to pay a whole lot to beat the Canadian industry standard wages and make it very attractive but for a Canadian airline pilot, if you leave, it's very difficult to come back at the bottom of the ladder, so the risk vs reward has to considered.
---------- ADS -----------
 
In twenty years time when your kids ask how you got into flying you want to be able to say "work and determination" not "I just kept taking money from your grandparents for type ratings until someone was stupid enough to give me a job"
munzil
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:09 am

Re: Cathay Looking For Canadians

Post by munzil »

altiplano wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:02 pm 825K HKD? So roughly 150K CAD? Just to start I think?

I have a few FO buddies there and I'm pretty certain they were a fair bit higher than that but we haven't compared pay stubbs in a while...

They give you a pile of cash to set up in the city too when you join IIRC... Maybe equivalent $30K or something.

Plus a living allowance in a city priced similar or somewhat higher than YVR, but low taxes at least...

Anyways... If I were staring at the winter setting in in Fort Nowhere or Lake Bullshit with an ATPL, a few thousand hours, and no Jet operators calling me in Canada I know where I'd be applying... at least for the paid trip down there for an interview and cocktails... like a mini-adventure.
Having lived in HKG, it is far more expensive than Vancouver. Vancouver doesn't even come close. Also take into account the size of an apartment there they are far smaller than Vancouver.

I lived there for ten years, and there were two types of expats. Those that loved HKG and those that despised it. You will never hear from the former on these forums.

It's a fucking great place, but not one where I would raise a family and live on just an ok salary.

Cathay is far from the airline it used to be ..which was one of the top in the world.
---------- ADS -----------
 
A V I A T O
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:07 pm

Re: Cathay Looking For Canadians

Post by A V I A T O »

Visited HKG last summer. Approx $4000 USD for a 450 sqft apartment, in Central HK, near a metro station that would get you to the airport in 90 mins or so.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Hilroy
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:15 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Cathay Looking For Canadians

Post by Hilroy »

Aren't they just hiring captains? I have a hard time thinking Cathay is short of FO/SO...
---------- ADS -----------
 
Master of Cessna 172
It has been 0 days since I've almost died in an airplane.
Never trust a student with fuel and oil.
trey kule
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4762
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:09 pm

Re: Cathay Looking For Canadians

Post by trey kule »

Its been a few years for me, but keep in mind that when you talk salary, HK has ( or used to have) a top tax rate of 10%. Its not always what you earn, but what is left in your pocket.
$110k with 10% tax as opposed to Canadian tax rates...

Also, they have a couple of feeders...interesting they are now doing direct entry other than cadets.

Hong Kong is a great place for expat pilots. Great for their kids. Not always great for spouses.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Accident speculation:
Those that post don’t know. Those that know don’t post
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Cathay Looking For Canadians

Post by altiplano »

Agreed that rent is higher in HKG.

Cathay does provide a subsidy too which may not fully cover a place in Central, but would in some areas... or at least offset it... Here in Canada we're on our own as rents in YVR/YYZ and property values skyrocket and completely remove themselves from any regional income correlation.

Also, except for maybe a golf cart in DB, much is cheaper in HKG...

Coupled with higher average incomes, low income tax, and no sales tax... I think you can make a comparison.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
C-GGGQ
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2050
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Cathay Looking For Canadians

Post by C-GGGQ »

Hilroy wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:48 pm Aren't they just hiring captains? I have a hard time thinking Cathay is short of FO/SO...
According to the website, direct entry FO and SO as well as cadets (hk Pr only for cadets)
---------- ADS -----------
 
TailwheelPilot
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:14 pm

Re: Cathay Looking For Canadians

Post by TailwheelPilot »

Not sure if it is accurate, over on pprune someone said the new pay scale all new hires get (the third or fourth scale, with significant reductions) can be amended unilaterally by the company. Something to bear in mind.
---------- ADS -----------
 
trey kule
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4762
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:09 pm

Re: Cathay Looking For Canadians

Post by trey kule »

Visited HKG last summer. Approx $4000 USD for a 450 sqft apartment, in Central HK, near a metro station that would get you to the airport in 90 mins or so.
---------- ADS -----------
Why , as a pilot, would you live in HK central?

Discovery Bay is alot closer by bus or car from the airport. Amazing place to live. And cheaper.
Lots and lots of pilots living there.
I am not sure why someone does not think it is good for kids. Schools are top notch.
The only downside I saw to fanily life was bored pilots’ wives who spent their days playing tennis and sitting around drinking coffee. And yes, a target rich environment for the Charlie Harpers amongst us.

I agree that there really are only two camps . Unfortunately some come with the idea it is a great adventure and have only visited, but never actually lived in a foreign culture. For many of them, after the first month or two, they are never happy. Terrible way to go through life.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Accident speculation:
Those that post don’t know. Those that know don’t post
Speedalive
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:37 pm

Re: Cathay Looking For Canadians

Post by Speedalive »

Here's the new contract. It's not as good as it used to be, but it's still miles better than anything on offer here, especially if you're sitting at 1000-1500 hours with your ATPL and are single (you only need 750 with the SAMRA/SARON written to apply). I can see myself applying. There are some sketchy things in the contract though. The company can can quite literally change anything on a whim, including pay, and apparently the union can't negotiate on behalf of anyone hired on this contract unless the company says so which is weird, but it's pretty much the same at Emirates/Etihad/Qatar (they don't even have a union to begin with). Part of being an expat I suppose. The rent prices in HK are pretty crazy for what you get, but it's understandable given the city's geography. It's not uncommon to see a 500 square foot apartment going for $20,000HKD/month. The prices are high for everything else in general too, but the salary is commensurate with that. The upgrade times from SO to FO are sitting at 5 years, but on step 1 SO pay, you'll be paid a minimum of $45,383.33HKD/month ($92,957.77CAD/year) (Working just the minimum monthly block hours + Pilot allowance) so it's not so bad. If you were to work 80 hours per month on the Airbus, you'd be looking at $68440.61HKD/month or $140185.53CAD/year. Obviously living costs are more, but you'll be far better off than working at Jazz barely scratching 40k per year and being forced to live within 90 mins of the airport in a major city. Living in Hong Kong would be sweet too. It's not for everyone of course, but if you do your research to know what you're getting yourself into, I imagine you'll be happier.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Attachments
CX Pilots Conditions of Service 2018.pdf
(291.67 KiB) Downloaded 131 times
CX-Employee-Handbook-for-Pilots-2018.pdf
(362.99 KiB) Downloaded 122 times
User avatar
Boreas
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 376
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:06 pm
Location: The haunted corners of familiar rooms

Re: Cathay Looking For Canadians

Post by Boreas »

If the choice is between Jazz and Cathay, as it stands right now and assuming your relatively young and single, Cathay wins hands down.

That being said, the geopolitical situation in Asia doesn't have the best outlook. One can easily end up having to "retreat" to Canada after 5 years as an SO at Cathay... without any additional flight experience to show for it...
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Cathay Looking For Canadians

Post by altiplano »

trey kule wrote: Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:38 pm Why , as a pilot, would you live in HK central?
trey kule wrote: Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:38 pmDiscovery Bay is alot closer by bus or car from the airport. Amazing place to live. And cheaper.
Lots and lots of pilots living there.
You answered your own question...

Not everyone wants to live with a bunch of pilots in the suburbs... I see the attraction of some things in DB, esp. with a family, but if I was young in HKG I'd want to live where it's at... and that's on the Island... even now, I'm getting old and I'd prefer being in it...
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
MarkyMark90
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:55 pm
Location: Instructing at 4500 ft

Re: Cathay Looking For Canadians

Post by MarkyMark90 »

Any record of Cathay hiring canadians with 750 hours and ATPL written??

I might be interested
---------- ADS -----------
 
My dream is to fly... Over the rainbow, so high!!
Post Reply

Return to “Employment Forum”