Encore vs Porter

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smooth
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Encore vs Porter

Post by smooth » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:28 pm

Hello guys/gals

Just got a offer from Porter, and Encore finished background/reference check this week expecting a offer soon. Which company would you go with and why? Really appreciate your point of view and help.

Here are some of things i like about each company, correct me if i'm wrong

Encore
Pros Flow to mainline, bigger company and more fleet to upgrade to
Profit sharing, ESPP
ALPA



Porter
Pros Better pay after 2nd Year and onward, Porter $43,384 or $42.63/$46.65/$54.29 vs Encore $42.73/$44.87/$48.23 1st, 2nd and 3rd Q400 FO
Small company faster upgrade time
Better looking uniform and they give you a hat :rolleyes:

Thank you for your time!
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by goingnowherefast » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:33 am

Encore has ALPA because they need a union. They need the power of collective bargaining.

Porter just treats their pilots better, and thus doesn't need a union to fight for their needs.

A unionized workplace isn't always a better thing. ALPA can have vastly different relationships with management. Just look at ALPA at Jazz, very cooperative. WJ ALPA almost went on strike. Sky Regional management has said they want a positive collaborative relationship with ALPA, similar to Jazz. First Air is another very cooperative relationship too.

I'd much rather work under the First Air - ALPA relationship than the WJ - ALPA relationship. I'd even take non-ALPA Porter over WJ - ALPA.

If management hates pilots, ALPA makes that slightly better. Still isn't as good as no union and management respecting pilots.
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by C-GGGQ » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:07 am

I have friends that were at porter and went wj mainline, also friends still at porter. From talking with them porter v encore is an easy porter vote
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by SPR » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:05 am

smooth wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:28 pm
Encore $42.73/$44.87/$48.23 1st, 2nd and 3rd Q400 FO
Small company faster upgrade time
Your Encore numbers are from 2018; they're about $0.75/hr higher this year. It's a marginal difference, but it can add up.
Upgrades at Encore can also be very quick, depending on how many hours and 705 time you come in with. The new matrix also has an allowance for time in the company, so even if you don't have the hours you'll still get upgraded at the one- or two-year mark, depending on your TT.
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by jpilot77 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:37 am

Your flow to “mainline” at Encore is more like a flow to Swoop....

Guys have been hired in the past year from Porter to AC.
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by SPR » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:44 am

jpilot77 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:37 am
Your flow to “mainline” at Encore is more like a flow to Swoop....
That's not true at all. Any pilot in the WestJet group of companies can bid for a position at Swoop, or they can bid for a position at mainline just the same. Everyone who has flowed recently has gone from the top of the list at Encore to mainline, whereas the Encore pilots going to Swoop have been very low seniority and were awarded those positions because no one above them bid for them. There's no obligation whatsoever to move from Encore to Swoop before getting to mainline.
It's amazing how many people who don't work for any of the WestJet companies think they know exactly what's going on here...
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by LCflyguy » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:51 pm

Porter
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by jpilot77 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:43 pm

Fair enough I stand corrected. But a new hire at Encore would be at the bottom of the entire Westjet seniority list. If they didn’t feel like going to Swoop, how long on average would the flow to mainline Westjet take?
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by Hangry » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:25 pm

jpilot77 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:43 pm
Fair enough I stand corrected. But a new hire at Encore would be at the bottom of the entire Westjet seniority list. If they didn’t feel like going to Swoop, how long on average would the flow to mainline Westjet take?
That’s the real question now. Probably something a fresh eyed new hire at Encore isn’t even thinking about.

The real issue is how long until a left seat at mainline. And at what base. And how long until you teach top pay scale.

WJ is a little bit of a joke now if you’re starting out looking for an airline career. Look elsewhere. It’s definitely below SW and TS now. Not even on the same planet as AC anymore.

Sad.
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by smooth » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:09 pm

They mentioned this One List during the Encore interview, can anyone please explain what's going on with this One List?
SPR wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:44 am
jpilot77 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:37 am
Your flow to “mainline” at Encore is more like a flow to Swoop....
That's not true at all. Any pilot in the WestJet group of companies can bid for a position at Swoop, or they can bid for a position at mainline just the same. Everyone who has flowed recently has gone from the top of the list at Encore to mainline, whereas the Encore pilots going to Swoop have been very low seniority and were awarded those positions because no one above them bid for them. There's no obligation whatsoever to move from Encore to Swoop before getting to mainline.
It's amazing how many people who don't work for any of the WestJet companies think they know exactly what's going on here...
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by smooth » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:12 pm

I also like to know the upgrade time between Porter and Encore is anyone willing to share. Let's say a pilot with just over 1000 hours?
jpilot77 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:43 pm
Fair enough I stand corrected. But a new hire at Encore would be at the bottom of the entire Westjet seniority list. If they didn’t feel like going to Swoop, how long on average would the flow to mainline Westjet take?
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by C-GGGQ » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:23 pm

Porter was roughly a 12-14 month upgrade recently (friend with 1250 hrs when hired
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by JBI » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:39 am

As many have suggested above, there are pros and cons to each for both the short/medium term and long term.

While Encore does have flow and the one list it a: the terms going forward are still being negotiated and b: there are now 550 or so pilots at Encore and even if mainline averages 100 pilots flowing per year (which is significantly higher than it's been recently) you'll still be at Encore for 5 and a half years. Likely longer. Encore isn't a bad place to be by any means, but don't come to Encore solely for the flow. Also, as it stands right now, ifyou flow to mainline after being an Encore Captain, you take a pay cut and for the foreseeable future, all the 737 spots are in YYZ. Probably not an issue if you're considering Porter, but for lots of YYC pilots it makes for a tough decision.

The issue of flow to Swoop is not so much that Encore pilots will "have to" flow to Swoop, it's that the company wants to grow Swoop to 20 or 30 tails right away whereas there isn't much mainline 737 expansion expected. The addition of the 787s at mainline will help, but most of the growth in the next few years could be at Swoop. The problem of course is that the working conditions at Swoop are so horrible that they can't attract any pilots.

in the short/medium term comparing Q operators to Q operators, it seems like you'll get stuck on reserve at Porter for the first few months but then as you increase in seniority your schedule will get significantly better. With Encore, because they have socialized scheduling, your schedule will not get better as you increase in seniority. As an FO, my personal opinion is that the pay difference isn't all that of an issue, but my understanding is that Porter Captain's pay is better.

I don't think there's a 'right' answer, but if I lived in TO with easy access to either Pearson or the Island, I'd probably lean toward Porter.
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by 47north » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:16 pm

No offence intended, but why would you pick Encore or Porter over Jazz?

Given the choice, Jazz would be the no brainer IMO.
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by C-GGGQ » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:26 pm

Cause those are the two places he has interviews/ offers
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by goingnowherefast » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:08 pm

Encore and Porter both pay better than Jazz.
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by 47north » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:34 am

goingnowherefast wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:08 pm
Encore and Porter both pay better than Jazz.
Perhaps to start,but not in the long term

Upgrade prospects are also better at Jazz and flowing to AC mainline is almost guaranteed.
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by C-GGGQ » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:52 am

This year the top wage at porter and jazz are virtually identical. Jazz has the 2% locked in for 17 years so it will end up higher, until porter renegotiates.... Then who knows.
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by smooth » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:48 pm

because Jazz never reply me lol :lol: :lol:
47north wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:16 pm
No offence intended, but why would you pick Encore or Porter over Jazz?

Given the choice, Jazz would be the no brainer IMO.
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by vxvy » Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:35 am

which one would provide a better lifestyle for someone with a young busy family? meaning shorter pairings & layovers?
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by C-GGGQ » Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:40 am

Porter seems to have a good mix of pairings. I believe its max 5 legs on a max 4 day pairing. But you can find 1,2,3,4 day pairings.
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by vxvy » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:01 am

Thanks for the info C-GGGQ
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by PT6onH20 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:21 pm

ive heard Encore can be rough, but POE survivors at my current shop still talk about YTZ PTSD.

that place is a gong show - get your 500 hrs 705 PIC and move along
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Re: Encore vs Porter

Post by fliter » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:10 am

Third year Porter FO salary is irrelevant. If the upgrades continue at anything like the present rate, you won't be in the right seat for more than 1.5 years.

I enjoy the lifestyle at Porter at the moment as a mid-pack FO. It's a mix of 1-4 day pairings, max 6 legs per day (and 6 is pretty rare; I rarely do more than 5, and the average probably comes to 3-3.5 for me). Due to the island curfew, there are no crazy early mornings and no late nights. I rarely find myself tired; in fact, I feel like I barely ever work (airline life is so eeeeeeasyyyyy), which is not what I hear about Encore.

The pilots are a good bunch, everyone wants to do a good job and people generally follow the SOPs etc. From what I hear about Encore, it's a much more "cowboy"-type mentality over there, which to me personally is not at all appealing.

There is no union, but from what I heard from more senior colleagues, this actually is an incentive for the management to treat pilots well. So that we don't feel the need to unionize due to hostile management practices.

YTZ was a complete mess for the last two summers with impossible gate wait times etc, but I think they've learned from those lessons, and things are improving. We'll see what the season holds. It's a cool place to land at; and it will really keep your flying sharp. Landing the Q at any other airport becomes SO EASY!! :)

Overall, my vote would go for Porter.
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