Encore vs Porter

[smooth]

Hello guys/gals

Just got a offer from Porter, and Encore finished background/reference check this week expecting a offer soon. Which company would you go with and why? Really appreciate your point of view and help.

Here are some of things i like about each company, correct me if i'm wrong

Encore
Pros Flow to mainline, bigger company and more fleet to upgrade to
Profit sharing, ESPP
ALPA



Porter
Pros Better pay after 2nd Year and onward, Porter $43,384 or $42.63/$46.65/$54.29 vs Encore $42.73/$44.87/$48.23 1st, 2nd and 3rd Q400 FO
Small company faster upgrade time
Better looking uniform and they give you a hat

Thank you for your time!

[goingnowherefast]

Encore has ALPA because they need a union. They need the power of collective bargaining.

Porter just treats their pilots better, and thus doesn't need a union to fight for their needs.

A unionized workplace isn't always a better thing. ALPA can have vastly different relationships with management. Just look at ALPA at Jazz, very cooperative. WJ ALPA almost went on strike. Sky Regional management has said they want a positive collaborative relationship with ALPA, similar to Jazz. First Air is another very cooperative relationship too.

I'd much rather work under the First Air - ALPA relationship than the WJ - ALPA relationship. I'd even take non-ALPA Porter over WJ - ALPA.

If management hates pilots, ALPA makes that slightly better. Still isn't as good as no union and management respecting pilots.

[C-GGGQ]

I have friends that were at porter and went wj mainline, also friends still at porter. From talking with them porter v encore is an easy porter vote

[SPR]

Encore $42.73/$44.87/$48.23 1st, 2nd and 3rd Q400 FO
Small company faster upgrade time

Your Encore numbers are from 2018; they're about $0.75/hr higher this year. It's a marginal difference, but it can add up.
Upgrades at Encore can also be very quick, depending on how many hours and 705 time you come in with. The new matrix also has an allowance for time in the company, so even if you don't have the hours you'll still get upgraded at the one- or two-year mark, depending on your TT.

[jpilot77]

Your flow to “mainline” at Encore is more like a flow to Swoop....

Guys have been hired in the past year from Porter to AC.

[SPR]

Your flow to “mainline” at Encore is more like a flow to Swoop....

That's not true at all. Any pilot in the WestJet group of companies can bid for a position at Swoop, or they can bid for a position at mainline just the same. Everyone who has flowed recently has gone from the top of the list at Encore to mainline, whereas the Encore pilots going to Swoop have been very low seniority and were awarded those positions because no one above them bid for them. There's no obligation whatsoever to move from Encore to Swoop before getting to mainline.
It's amazing how many people who don't work for any of the WestJet companies think they know exactly what's going on here...

[LCflyguy]

Porter

[jpilot77]

Fair enough I stand corrected. But a new hire at Encore would be at the bottom of the entire Westjet seniority list. If they didn’t feel like going to Swoop, how long on average would the flow to mainline Westjet take?

[Hangry]

Fair enough I stand corrected. But a new hire at Encore would be at the bottom of the entire Westjet seniority list. If they didn’t feel like going to Swoop, how long on average would the flow to mainline Westjet take?

That’s the real question now. Probably something a fresh eyed new hire at Encore isn’t even thinking about.

The real issue is how long until a left seat at mainline. And at what base. And how long until you teach top pay scale.

WJ is a little bit of a joke now if you’re starting out looking for an airline career. Look elsewhere. It’s definitely below SW and TS now. Not even on the same planet as AC anymore.

Sad.

[smooth]

They mentioned this One List during the Encore interview, can anyone please explain what's going on with this One List?

Your flow to “mainline” at Encore is more like a flow to Swoop....

That's not true at all. Any pilot in the WestJet group of companies can bid for a position at Swoop, or they can bid for a position at mainline just the same. Everyone who has flowed recently has gone from the top of the list at Encore to mainline, whereas the Encore pilots going to Swoop have been very low seniority and were awarded those positions because no one above them bid for them. There's no obligation whatsoever to move from Encore to Swoop before getting to mainline.
It's amazing how many people who don't work for any of the WestJet companies think they know exactly what's going on here...

[smooth]

I also like to know the upgrade time between Porter and Encore is anyone willing to share. Let's say a pilot with just over 1000 hours?

Fair enough I stand corrected. But a new hire at Encore would be at the bottom of the entire Westjet seniority list. If they didn’t feel like going to Swoop, how long on average would the flow to mainline Westjet take?

[C-GGGQ]

Porter was roughly a 12-14 month upgrade recently (friend with 1250 hrs when hired

[JBI]

As many have suggested above, there are pros and cons to each for both the short/medium term and long term.

While Encore does have flow and the one list it a: the terms going forward are still being negotiated and b: there are now 550 or so pilots at Encore and even if mainline averages 100 pilots flowing per year (which is significantly higher than it's been recently) you'll still be at Encore for 5 and a half years. Likely longer. Encore isn't a bad place to be by any means, but don't come to Encore solely for the flow. Also, as it stands right now, ifyou flow to mainline after being an Encore Captain, you take a pay cut and for the foreseeable future, all the 737 spots are in YYZ. Probably not an issue if you're considering Porter, but for lots of YYC pilots it makes for a tough decision.

The issue of flow to Swoop is not so much that Encore pilots will "have to" flow to Swoop, it's that the company wants to grow Swoop to 20 or 30 tails right away whereas there isn't much mainline 737 expansion expected. The addition of the 787s at mainline will help, but most of the growth in the next few years could be at Swoop. The problem of course is that the working conditions at Swoop are so horrible that they can't attract any pilots.

in the short/medium term comparing Q operators to Q operators, it seems like you'll get stuck on reserve at Porter for the first few months but then as you increase in seniority your schedule will get significantly better. With Encore, because they have socialized scheduling, your schedule will not get better as you increase in seniority. As an FO, my personal opinion is that the pay difference isn't all that of an issue, but my understanding is that Porter Captain's pay is better.

I don't think there's a 'right' answer, but if I lived in TO with easy access to either Pearson or the Island, I'd probably lean toward Porter.

[47north]

No offence intended, but why would you pick Encore or Porter over Jazz?

Given the choice, Jazz would be the no brainer IMO.

[C-GGGQ]

Cause those are the two places he has interviews/ offers

[goingnowherefast]

Encore and Porter both pay better than Jazz.

[47north]

Encore and Porter both pay better than Jazz.

Perhaps to start,but not in the long term

Upgrade prospects are also better at Jazz and flowing to AC mainline is almost guaranteed.

[C-GGGQ]

This year the top wage at porter and jazz are virtually identical. Jazz has the 2% locked in for 17 years so it will end up higher, until porter renegotiates.... Then who knows.

[smooth]

because Jazz never reply me lol

No offence intended, but why would you pick Encore or Porter over Jazz?

Given the choice, Jazz would be the no brainer IMO.

[vxvy]

which one would provide a better lifestyle for someone with a young busy family? meaning shorter pairings & layovers?