Westjet v. Jazz

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Northernpilot226
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Westjet v. Jazz

Post by Northernpilot226 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:04 pm

Good evening,

So I’ve finally decided to leave my 704/705 company to join the airlines, and I’m hoping to get some input on my options. I’m presently considering Westjet (mainline) or Jazz. I still have about 35 years until retirement, so I’m looking for somewhere to hang my hat. Please note that AC isn’t an option (already got the pfo), so that won’t be a factor in my decision. Also note that YYZ base will be my long-term base plan.

Westjet:



Pros
Socialized bidding (better while I’m young)
Better schedules
Higher base pay scales
Possible long-term expansion
First contract with the possibility of future improvements


Cons
Long upgrades
No direct retirement plan
Uncertainty with Onex
Uncertainty with one-list

Jazz:

Pros
Quick upgrades
Great benefits
Dedicated retirement plan

Cons

Limited long-term expansion
Lower base pay scale
Seniority based schedule, with lots of senior captains
No expansion plan, stagnant/negative growth
Entirely dependent on AC
Each contract appears to get worse
Harder schedules (many legs per day)

If there any other input you would have, please feel free to add.

If you were in my situation, which would you take?

Thanks!

Will
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North Shore
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Re: Westjet v. Jazz

Post by North Shore » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:15 pm

Apply to both, and see who calls you first? There's no guarantee that either of them will...
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: Westjet v. Jazz

Post by Yycjetdriver » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:17 pm

There’s been many many that have left Jazz for Westjet and I’d be shocked if any went the other way. There’s a reason for that, in fact many have left Jazz for Transat, sunwing, westjet, cargojet, Morningstar and many more. If your true goal is AC, honestly Westjet would probably get you there faster and you’ll make more while working less than Jazz while you wait.
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FL320
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Re: Westjet v. Jazz

Post by FL320 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:05 am

Yycjetdriver wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:17 pm
There’s been many many that have left Jazz for Westjet and I’d be shocked if any went the other way. There’s a reason for that, in fact many have left Jazz for Transat, sunwing, westjet, cargojet, Morningstar and many more. If your true goal is AC, honestly Westjet would probably get you there faster and you’ll make more while working less than Jazz while you wait.
+1
I was at Jazz some years ago when it wasn’t a college kid airline (on a better payscale than what they offer today): I am now at Transat and I have never missed the job at Jazz! No way I would go back.
I am really surprised you compare a job at Jazz to WS mainline :rolleyes:
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vermont
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Re: Westjet v. Jazz

Post by vermont » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:42 am

Yycjetdriver wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:17 pm
There’s been many many that have left Jazz for Westjet and I’d be shocked if any went the other way. There’s a reason for that, in fact many have left Jazz for Transat, sunwing, westjet, cargojet, Morningstar and many more. If your true goal is AC, honestly Westjet would probably get you there faster and you’ll make more while working less than Jazz while you wait.
How does that even work? The flow agreement is 60% of hires at AC come from Jazz.
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: Westjet v. Jazz

Post by Yycjetdriver » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:53 am

vermont wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:42 am
Yycjetdriver wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:17 pm
There’s been many many that have left Jazz for Westjet and I’d be shocked if any went the other way. There’s a reason for that, in fact many have left Jazz for Transat, sunwing, westjet, cargojet, Morningstar and many more. If your true goal is AC, honestly Westjet would probably get you there faster and you’ll make more while working less than Jazz while you wait.
How does that even work? The flow agreement is 60% of hires at AC come from Jazz.
Read my post again. What the flow agreement is irrelevant to my statement. I said it’s a faster route. I didn’t say guaranteed route is, because there actually isn’t a guaranteed route.
For many reasons, the first being the fact WS mainline pilots have significantly more experience that a Jazz new hire therefor making them eligible for AC employment sooner. Secondly AC doesn’t care at which rate the decimate WJ’s roster, while they take more consideration into hiring from their regionals.
Every WJ to AC hire I’ve known was contacted immediately after applying, some while just finishing WJ mainline line indoc.
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RILEY
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Re: Westjet v. Jazz

Post by RILEY » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:41 am

Northernpilot226 wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:04 pm
Good evening,

So I’ve finally decided to leave my 704/705 company to join the airlines, and I’m hoping to get some input on my options. I’m presently considering Westjet (mainline) or Jazz. I still have about 35 years until retirement, so I’m looking for somewhere to hang my hat. Please note that AC isn’t an option (already got the pfo), so that won’t be a factor in my decision. Also note that YYZ base will be my long-term base plan.

Westjet:



Pros
Socialized bidding (better while I’m young)
Better schedules
Higher base pay scales
Possible long-term expansion
First contract with the possibility of future improvements


Cons
Long upgrades
No direct retirement plan
Uncertainty with Onex
Uncertainty with one-list

Jazz:

Pros
Quick upgrades
Great benefits
Dedicated retirement plan

Cons

Limited long-term expansion
Lower base pay scale
Seniority based schedule, with lots of senior captains
No expansion plan, stagnant/negative growth
Entirely dependent on AC
Each contract appears to get worse
Harder schedules (many legs per day)

If there any other input you would have, please feel free to add.

If you were in my situation, which would you take?

Thanks!

Will

Lifestyle is most important to me when deciding. If YYZ is your long term base/home than why consider otherwise. Hopefully morale has improved and upgrade times are slowly decreasing at WJ.
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Rowdy
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Re: Westjet v. Jazz

Post by Rowdy » Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:28 pm

Lets clarify.. are you considering JAZZ/Encore as the two?

or WJ mainline and Jazz?

Two very different comparisons.

Jazz vs Encore? Thats easy...

Jazz vs. OTS at WJ? Depends on what you want and whether you NEED to tell people you fly a Boeing...
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Re: Westjet v. Jazz

Post by jpilot77 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:14 pm

I’d also add a PFO from AC doesn’t mean they won’t take you. There are lots of pilots who got in on their second try and a few on their third try.
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Re: Westjet v. Jazz

Post by flyinhigh » Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:03 am

Consider Transat, Sunwing, heck even morningstar. These are all better than Jazz.
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vermont
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Re: Westjet v. Jazz

Post by vermont » Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:20 pm

flyinhigh wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:03 am
Consider Transat, Sunwing, heck even morningstar. These are all better than Jazz.
What happens to Morningstar if FedEx cancels the contract?
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Northernpilot226
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Re: Westjet v. Jazz

Post by Northernpilot226 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:21 am

Hi all,

Thanks for the info. I have my application in with both Westjet mainline and Jazz, but I want to know which is the best option in the end. For example, if I get established with Jazz, then get called from Westjet 2-3 months in, is it worth it to go?

The reason I ask is that I know people who've hung their hat at both places, but it's rarely discussed which one is the better option. It seems to me there are upsides and downsides to both, especially if money isn't a huge factor in the long-run (I consider salaries at both acceptable in this regard).

As for the re-trying at AC, that will be the plan, but again, I'd like somewhere to hang my hat in case that doesn't work out.

What I'm looking for is a comparison between the two, especially from someone who has left Jazz to Westjet (or Westjet to Jazz). Has there been substantial improvements to your quality of life/enjoyment from your job? Do you feel either has more on offer? For example, I would assume Westjet's schedules are more productive, but you're also crossing more timezones than a regional pilot.

To clarify, my priorities are: quality of life, long-term stability, growth possibilities, job satisfaction, and schedules.

Thanks for your time,

Will
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ayseven
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Re: Westjet v. Jazz

Post by ayseven » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:27 pm

Don't count your chickens. Must be nice tho to be qualified for everyone out there hiring. I mean that sincerely.
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altiplano
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Re: Westjet v. Jazz

Post by altiplano » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:35 pm

I think Jazz has the generally better contract.

I think WestJet will pay more at top salary.

I think, particularly if you upgrade early, at Jazz you will be making more / taking home more sooner.

Stability? Crystal ball stuff...
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