Conair

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TSAM
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Re: Conair

Post by TSAM »

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Last edited by TSAM on Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bigredone
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Re: Conair

Post by bigredone »

flying4dollars wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:09 pm
TheRealMcCoy wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:08 pm Was always a dream of mine to fly with them. But after a co worker went there last summer and then opted out and hearing some more info from another fella as well. Don’t think I’ll be applying.
May want to reconsider your source for decision making. 90 pilots of which 1/4 have been there longer than 20 years. Or stick with your "I knew this guy once". Better still tell us about the person who opted out and why. I will confirm the accuracy of their claim for you.
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TheRealMcCoy
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Re: Conair

Post by TheRealMcCoy »

bigredone wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:39 pm
May want to reconsider your source for decision making. 90 pilots of which 1/4 have been there longer than 20 years. Or stick with your "I knew this guy once". Better still tell us about the person who opted out and why. I will confirm the accuracy of their claim for you.
No need to get uppity. Those numbers are all fine and dandy, but when you trust someone and know them to be a truthful person; you listen. I never said it was a bad place to work, you’re interpreting it as that, I merely said I won’t be applying. It’s not what I’m looking for.
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dhc#
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Re: Conair

Post by dhc# »

bigredone wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:48 pm Base pay $60-130k/116 days of service or $500-1100/day. Hourly($50-100), vacation, RRSP match etc on top. A few 100 day contracts but mostly 130 day with some RJ pilots working 260+ days.
Would anyone have updated WAWCON for Conair pilots as this info is a few yrs old.
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co-joe
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Re: Conair

Post by co-joe »

dhc# wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:23 pm
bigredone wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:48 pm Base pay $60-130k/116 days of service or $500-1100/day. Hourly($50-100), vacation, RRSP match etc on top. A few 100 day contracts but mostly 130 day with some RJ pilots working 260+ days.
Would anyone have updated WAWCON for Conair pilots as this info is a few yrs old.
Why quote a range when you don't start anywhere but the bottom? It's 60k a year to be gone for 120+ days (2 week vacation off in the middle) Some people go to Australia as well.

It used to be just a decent salary, but now it's heavy on pay by the flight hour, but the aircraft are much faster. Convar 580s get to and from the fire a lot faster than Firecats and Dc6's did. And now they're going to Q400s and Avro RJs. BC still pays a good pre-diem and living allowance so guys rent houses or bring their RVs on the road and bank the cash, AB pays for an average hotel directly and a pre-diem. The fleet used to be smaller so guys would often average 250 hours a year, most now fly 150 or less even in busy years (a slow year you may only fly 50 hours). Now there are more aircraft and they are getting to be faster and faster machines.

I've know bunch of people who've flown for both Conair and Airspray over the years, a couple are still there, most had fun for a few seasons and saw that selling your summers for 60k wasn't worth it. I think it should pay twice that to start and go up from there.
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Dhc6to8
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Conair

Post by Dhc6to8 »

My experience with Conair was awesome. Great people and industry leaders work there. They know what they are doing. However, you are selling your summer (as previously mentioned). It takes about 5 years to get into good money. You get two blocks of (paid) 7 days off during the summer - randomly assigned. It was a welcome change, however given other international standards of rotations - being gone for a 130 day assignment is a tough sell to family and to yourself. I have noticed that the up and coming generation of aviators who value a work-life balance will not be interested in a job like this. Conair would do well to revamp the salary schedule and to adopt a more modern rotation system - 2 weeks in, 2 weeks off or 1 month in, 1 month off would attract a lot more suitable candidates. As well, having a pool of pilots who only work the Canadian winter overseas would be appealing to some.
I know guys who have passed on the Conair offer to go elsewhere for a more “liveable” rotation.
The updated advertisement is completely opposite to what was “sold to me” during recruiting years ago - years ago it was sold as a 4 to 5 month contract of “summer camp” now it is being sold as a job where you get a few months off every year. I understand that, fire seasons are becoming longer, and Conair wants to obtain contracts throughout the world in both hemispheres. So, it looks like the nature of the job is changing, and after a Canadian summer some people are electing to work winters in Australia now on the Rj and Q4 fleets. So far it is not in the collective agreement to work a longer rotation, but it might become the norm for the future, who knows. What all this boils down to is what is a summer away worth to you? Do you want to finish up a Canadian summer and leave at the end of August for overseas contracts? If you’re single and don’t have any roots planted then go for it, it’s the adventure of a lifetime and some of the finest aviation available. You’ll work with some awesome people and make friends for life. I just wish that the work was more flexible in terms of rotations and that pilots would have the chance to decide if they want to pass on a summer contract and rather fly during the Canadian winter overseas. A system like that would attract a lot more suitable candidates and aid in their retention.
Conair is a great place and I hope that they modernize their system to be more flexible in the future and that they would bump the salary up for initial hires. I agree with co-joe that the starting salary should be double what it is. Who knows, maybe things will change in the future.
Another important point is that new hires are required to join the Union. The Union takes around 350$ as a one up front payment thereafter 90$ per month all year round. Paying dues all year round took a while to get used to! Your first year you are on probation, so if you do leave before the second season or, you fail to qualify in your second season you are saying goodbye to a small amount of money. And, at first year salary every penny counts. So, know what you are getting yourself into before you sign on. It isn’t fair to Conair or to yourself to give them the “one and done” show after year one. Do your homework, learn as much as you can and go attend one of their open house job fairs. Go meet them and ask questions if you are interested. They are an awesome group of people! Some of the best in the industry!
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dhc#
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Re: Conair

Post by dhc# »

Anyone got an update on the latest at Conair...hiring for '23 (are they short pilots like everyone else), any updated WAWCON/schedules, Q400/RJ fleet update, bases, contracts etc. ??
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Conair

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

The firebombing lifestyle is the firebombing lifestyle. You are necessarily going to be away most of every summer and new hire pilots will go to tanker bases that are in small and/or northern towns. The average year will involve a lot of sitting around on the base with the occasional bust where you fly your pants off so you have to be able to entertain yourself.

There seems to be 2 kinds of Conair pilots. Pilots try it out and find after 1 to 3 years the lifestyle just doesn't work for them. Almost everybody that makes it to year 5 is a lifer.

The upside is it is IMO the most interesting flying in civil aviation.
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dhc#
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Re: Conair

Post by dhc# »

I understand the "lifestyle" aspect of this type of career (been many, many....many threads over the years detailing the job), I am looking more for updated specifics (as in my previous post) if anyone in the know is willing to post or PM...
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digits_
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Re: Conair

Post by digits_ »

Big Pistons Forever wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:19 pm The firebombing lifestyle is the firebombing lifestyle. You are necessarily going to be away most of every summer and new hire pilots will go to tanker bases that are in small and/or northern towns.
It's not necessary for it to be like this. It's one of the last remaining 'old school' ways of operating that's left.

Lots of companies that offer rotational schedules in the US. There's no reason why the same wouldn't be possible in Canada or why Canadian firebombing pilots should accept CARS min days off in summer.
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Re: Conair

Post by propfeather »

dhc# wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 5:15 pm looking more for updated specifics (as in my previous post) if anyone in the know is willing to post or PM...
As am I, if anyone would be willing to PM, would be greatly appreciated.
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Conair

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

There is what should be vs what is. What is, is what I described so if you want to do this line of work you need to go in with your eyes open. Almost nobody left Conair because of the money, they left because the firebombing lifestyle didn’t work for them.

The customer, the Forest Service doesn’t want to pay to double crew the airplanes which is what would be required to have a rotation. Maybe that will change when the companies can’t man airplanes, which is certainly becoming more likely given Industry trends, but that won’t happen for the 2023 season. So if you want to work, go in understanding what is vs what should be.
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Dhc6to8
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Re: Conair

Post by Dhc6to8 »

It is time for the Canadian firebombing industry to change and pull themselves out of the stone age… every operator in the US now offers rotations and double what Canada pays. One US based operator starts out DEC Captains at 185K USD and 3 weeks On/3 weeks OFF, albeit for a longer season. One European operator even offers 11 day ON/11days OFF for qualified scooper pilots. If companies like Conair want to attract and retain aircrew in the future, they will need to adapt and change the way the job is structured. The old way of doing things, because it was always done that way is not a viable model going forward. The younger generations want a LIFE-WORK balance and if operators don’t adapt, to provide that, then they will find themselves without qualified aircrew. The time of the dinosaurs in Canadian aviation is soon to be a thing of the past. The world evolves and moves on. Conair still has some dinosaurs left in the seniority system and at the management table. Barry Marsden once told me that to secure aircrew in the future he might have to select future pilots and send them for their basic license and training and bond them for a decade just to fill seats. That is not the answer, the answer is to adapt the job so that it provides a lifestyle that is sustainable over a career - by providing rotations that allow an individual to have a LIFE-WORK balance. The dinosaurs sacrificed their marriages, summers and lives - why should the next generation?
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bigredone
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Re: Conair

Post by bigredone »

Not all, clearly, pilots want to do 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off for 6-8 months. If this were the case then the free market/free will would not allow a company outside of rotation to exist where in the case of Conair, and many other companies, they not only exist but thrive.

There are less than 100 pilots(RJ85, DH-400, AT802, TC690, C208, CL215T) at Conair Canada and another 50 or so(RJ85, CL415, PC12) in the USA side. There is some cross pollination between the two as far as pilots go but it is sporadic even though it's one company.
In order to keep this readable, I will use majority cases when stating some of what you ask where in actual fact there is a multitude of scenarios but they mostly apply to more pilots with at least a few areas in.

Schedule: 130 consecutive day contracts starting late April-late May whereby 2x7 day periods free from duty. 4 months of 6 week on/1 week off more or less where weeks off is at regular pay with Per-diem but no extra travel allowance. Pilots may elect to remain at assigned location with company provided accomodations where applicable and it's not uncommon for company flights or cars to be made available to help out. Training is generally March/April(Home, online, Abbotsford, SIM locations) with days captured from the 130 days except home study on your own time and days exceeding the 130 paid out 1 day at a time. It is 4 months on, 8 months off.

Pay: There is a pay scale that follows type and years of service. In very general terms the day rate is $500-$1000 +hourly, vacation, RRSP matching etc. The easy way to calculate is over the four months(116 days on duty) one would make $75K starting and $150K top end with many variables dictating this. Extra days are offered up from time to time by seniority and type. Many get involved in spring training and this is paid out in addition to the 130 days. Per-diem varies with agency whereby some accommodations/transportation is provided and others an allowance is provided in leu of. There is the ability to do "double season" within the company depending on your type and seniority so double all the $$$ figures if this is the case. Because of your newly acquired expertise backed by the companies reputation, it is fairly easy to pick up firefighting contract work outside of the Canadian season with varying lengths of commitment and corresponding pay. I would guess anywhere from 10-20% of the pilots take advantage of this year over year.

Canadian Fleet: There is a mix of aircraft either on contract or waiting to get picked up on a call when needed bases or relief for U/S contracted aircraft.
3xRJ85, 13xDH400, 25xAT802, 6xTC690, 8xC208 and operate 4xCL215Ts of the Alberta Government.
They are based in BC(Abbotsford, Penticton, Kamloops, Prince George and Ft St John), Alberta, Yukon and USA(Alaska and Washington State), Australia(QLD, NSW and Victoria).

I would suggest to anyone thinking of this line of work to give it a try. If you are at a job that you aren't going to be at forever anyhow then leave in spring, give firework a try and if by summers end decide it's not for you then the you've made some money(likely much more than in 4 months at your current job) and you can strike it off your list. 1/3 of the pilots have been there 10+years with top 20 having served 20 years.

Good luck
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mmm...bacon
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Re: Conair

Post by mmm...bacon »

8) Newton's little-known 5th law is obviously in play here! "For every expert, there's an equal, and opposite, expert!" :smt040
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sio31790
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Re: Conair

Post by sio31790 »

Hello,

I am looking to get some recent insights with Conair. What kind of profiles are getting hired these days ?

I currently fly the 737 and flew up North for a couple of years. I am wondering if a profile of 3000+ Total Time with 1000+ PIC MPIC turbine time and some jet time could eventually be competitive to apply for a position on the RJ85.
Do you need a mandatory first experience as a Bird Dog pilot somewhere before even considering getting an interview with them ?

Do they take people doing LOAs from their airlines to come work for a season and released them after the season to eventually go back to their airline job and repeat it the next year ?

Very interested to see if it's something that could work.

Cheers
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iflyforpie
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Re: Conair

Post by iflyforpie »

You’ll probably start out as bird dog or right seat on the Q unless you have firefighting experience or bring seaplane and/or tailwheel time to the table for SEAT. My impression is that jet time doesn’t matter unless it’s specialty flying. The only time you’re doing similar flying to an airline/charter/or cargo 737 going from SID to ILS in the flight levels is repositioning.

Positions and bases are awarded on seniority as well as experience. New hires get what’s left… currently in this boat myself. I’m on the Caravan but don’t know where I’m going… but it probably Lac La Biche. 6000TT 5000PIC 4000 MULTI 3500 TURBINE but no jet or any transport category aircraft so who knows?

It definitely isn’t about the type for me and I’m really looking forward to flying a plane I thought I’d missed in my career.
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Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
piperdriver
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Re: Conair

Post by piperdriver »

Dhc6to8 wrote: Sun Dec 25, 2022 1:38 am It is time for the Canadian firebombing industry to change and pull themselves out of the stone age… every operator in the US now offers rotations and double what Canada pays. One US based operator starts out DEC Captains at 185K USD and 3 weeks On/3 weeks OFF, albeit for a longer season. One European operator even offers 11 day ON/11days OFF for qualified scooper pilots. If companies like Conair want to attract and retain aircrew in the future, they will need to adapt and change the way the job is structured. The old way of doing things, because it was always done that way is not a viable model going forward. The younger generations want a LIFE-WORK balance and if operators don’t adapt, to provide that, then they will find themselves without qualified aircrew. The time of the dinosaurs in Canadian aviation is soon to be a thing of the past. The world evolves and moves on. Conair still has some dinosaurs left in the seniority system and at the management table. Barry Marsden once told me that to secure aircrew in the future he might have to select future pilots and send them for their basic license and training and bond them for a decade just to fill seats. That is not the answer, the answer is to adapt the job so that it provides a lifestyle that is sustainable over a career - by providing rotations that allow an individual to have a LIFE-WORK balance. The dinosaurs sacrificed their marriages, summers and lives - why should the next generation?
The US operator that pays 185k USD, would that be Bridger Aerospace?
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ChrisB
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Re: Conair

Post by ChrisB »

How hard would the 10 on 4 off like the OMNR be?
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rigpiggy
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Re: Conair

Post by rigpiggy »

Was looking for some contract crew for the winter. Talked to the guys in Montana. Nope they pay them year round to keep them in the lineup...... Most companies in the states are actually looking at there people as a resource to manage, not just exploit and dump in the garbage
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