Job Posting- Red Flags

[Panama Jack]

Just wondering why Canadian companies are still largely mute about salary information? I know it isn't a big deal for pilots (after all, we just want to fly, and ideally a big, new airplane that burns kerosene), but you would think that we would be in a new century now and HR policies would have caught up with leading hiring practices.

Recruiting Red Flags

P.S., I know... $500.

[edmanster]

My 2cents after 30 years in the business ..
Pilots are paid to fly an aircraft from point A to point B. There is is usually only 1 way to accomplish that. Say a typical leg .. is X hours long ..almost every pilot will accomplish this in less then 2X hours.. regardless of weather etc .. (more or less) .. a fixed "known" quantity ..

Mechs are different. Some mechanics can install & rig an engine in a day - others in a week. Some jobs are completed fast and without future snags .. whereas other installs are snag-prone for weeks .. Some mechs will hold up a job because "in his opinion" the hardware should be replaced - whereas another mech believes otherwise.
There are various levels of competency for a mechanic - even though they are all licensed. Should a shop hire a number of Licensed - but of low aptitude - personnel .. the shop will be losing flights, customers & credibility immediately - and be out of business shortly.
So how does one assign a wage $$ to a mechanic. Lately it seems that a License (+ yrs in service) is the threshold. Thus .. this is why everyone immediately strives to obtain the License as soon as possible. Is this the best solution?

.. Check it out - Open an AMO & hire the first 5 Licensed Mechanics that walk in the door and pay them the current wage. Stake your savings & reputation on the believe that because they are paid the top wage - they will perform equivalent (or exceed) the next door competition.

No AMO owner would commit to a fixed wage $$ - because the output of the shop is dependant on the quality of the mechanic & not whether the mech is licensed & has a shiny toolbox. It requires many years to ween a capable "all-round" individual & and the "years" have to consist of more than 'wheels & brakes' for the last 10 years! ... How to measure the "known" quality of a mechanic ?

[digits_]

How is that relevant to not posting a salary or wage in a job ad? Specify an hourly rate, credit rate, salary or at least some kind of info as to what the salary might be.

"A typical first year pilot makes $ (x)xxxxx a year at our company."

Then divid that number by 2 or 3, depending on company, and you know how much you'll make during a pandemic

[Heliian]

It's not a red flag as most job postings across most industries don't post the salary. I find it to be rather annoying and I have skipped many open positions just for that. If it's an entry level or a dead end job then they don't post it because it's too small and if it's a good, skilled job then they don't post it so they can try the old "what are you worth" bit.

The end game is to simply save money on that position. The only ones that do post a salary are the contractually obliged union or government postings, even then a range is usually put in say : $72352 - $103849

Then, if we're talking aviation, you'll have different pay structures with dailys/hourlys/expenses/etc. that can be tweaked around and tailored to each individual employee, hence the not posting salaries.

[PeterParker]

To me the biggest red flag in aviation is that you are paid only for when the engine(s) is(are) turning. As a pilot, we are all trained to work a significant portion of our time for free. The time you spend flight planning, briefing with your crew, pre-flighting the aircraft, putting away to bed at the end of the duty day is all done at a whopping $0 per hour! How is this acceptable and more importantly legal?

[digits_]

To me the biggest red flag in aviation is that you are paid only for when the engine(s) is(are) turning. As a pilot, we are all trained to work a significant portion of our time for free. The time you spend flight planning, briefing with your crew, pre-flighting the aircraft, putting away to bed at the end of the duty day is all done at a whopping $0 per hour! How is this acceptable and more importantly legal?

It's legal as long as the pay for the sum of all your work exceeds minimum wage per (paycheque/month/week). There is some discussion about the interval.

[Heliian]

To me the biggest red flag in aviation is that you are paid only for when the engine(s) is(are) turning. As a pilot, we are all trained to work a significant portion of our time for free. The time you spend flight planning, briefing with your crew, pre-flighting the aircraft, putting away to bed at the end of the duty day is all done at a whopping $0 per hour! How is this acceptable and more importantly legal?

That's why a good daily rate is important for a steady cheque. If you get $0 daily and rely on flight pay, you're doing it wrong.

[tbaylx]

To me the biggest red flag in aviation is that you are paid only for when the engine(s) is(are) turning. As a pilot, we are all trained to work a significant portion of our time for free. The time you spend flight planning, briefing with your crew, pre-flighting the aircraft, putting away to bed at the end of the duty day is all done at a whopping $0 per hour! How is this acceptable and more importantly legal?

Because of your minimum monthly guarantee is paid regardless of flight hours

[PeterParker]

It's legal as long as the pay for the sum of all your work exceeds minimum wage per (paycheque/month/week). There is some discussion about the interval.

An average entry-level 705 FO flying turboprops makes about $35-40 per flight hour with a monthly guarantee of about 80 credits. Let's average about 150 duty hours per month assuming no overtime and we end up with an hourly rate of $18.66-21.33

How the heck is this acceptable when this person has spent at least 2 years working as a professional pilot prior to this job and can be considered "more experienced"? You might end up making more than that working most entry-level jobs in the service sector by year 2!

For everyone arguing that pilots should negotiate better deals for themselves, I have this to say. Why is it that as a group of professionals, we are always ready to apply blame on the entry-level pilot? Why stomp on the guy below you on the career ladder? Why don't the people who are more experienced in the industry pull their junior colleagues up by providing a helping hand? Stick up for the pilot who is green behind their ears. Despite having unions, we are paid less, have worse benefits (minus flight benefits) and live generally worse lives than bus drivers in large cities like Vancouver and somehow we are okay with that.

I think the only thing we are good at is pretending that we make a ton of money, wearing shitty uniforms that we paid for, boasting about flight benefits which are not really all that great if you think hard enough about, racking up a ton of debt, living half our lives away from home and a bunch more commuting because the cities we are based in are too expensive to live in. The reality is that we are not a whole lot better than someone who graduated high school and is working in the service sector. Although they didn't spend upwards of $40,000 on flight training to make minimum wage.

['97 Tercel]

P.S., I know... $500.

It's down to 350.