Ramp to Pilot Position Waiting Times

[hank998899]

Hi there,

Anybody have any idea about how long are the wait times for rampies now during COVID to get to the plane?

I'm currently contemplating should I carry on my current office job until the industry speeds up again to get into a 703, go directly to a ramp poisiton and wait to get on a plane in a 703, or get my instructor's rating and instruct at an FTU... Currently have a CPL w/ around 270TT w/ Group 1 flight test done, INRAT scheduled to be written this coming Monday and IATRA pending...

[challenger_nami]

Some of the smaller FTUs may go out of business as the flow of new pilots slow down. if you have a good shot at becoming an instructor at one of the more established FTUs, and you can afford it, then become an instructor. You will need the Flight Hours.

Also, ONLY if you are a hard worker, (and I f that option is available to you) take a part time ramp job that you know will lead to the flight line. That will help you make connections for when the employment opportunities open up.

The above options take a lot of hard work, and pay you minimum wage..,. Welcome to aviation.
You probably can get paid more money with less work, at your office job. So you have to choose.

[BE20 Driver]

Right now, people don't even know what Pilot-to-Pilot waiting times are. Everything in Canadian aviation is driven by the guys at the top. If Air Canada isn't hiring, Jazz won't lose people to AC and Jazz will stop hiring. If Jazz isn't hiring, people won't move up from Perimeter and therefore Perimeter won't hire. If Perimeter isn't hiring people won't be able to leave the Keystone's of the world. If they aren't losing pilots up the ladder, no one moves off the ramp and into the Navajo.

All of the above have laid off. Most of the airlines at the top of the list will be committed to getting their laid off pilots back before any real hiring from down the ladder occurs.
Take what ever job you can find that pays the bills. Even better if it is in aviation.

[TurkeyFarmYQX]

Recently turned down a PIW job with an operator in the Arctic. With the first interview I was told six months, then the next day for the second interview it was a year. A few days later with job offer, it was 18+ months.

Clearly nobody knows how long this nightmare is going to be around.

I've been considering doing my Instructor Rating in the meantime but after calling around to eight or nine flight schools, none are hiring the foreseeable future. They all have glut of Instructors coming back from flying the Q400 that they'd rather have instead of a fresh Class IV guy.



We're screwed.

[lownslow]

∞

[shamrock104]

What Pilot positions. No one can guarantee where all this will go with wait times etc etc.

[flyingcanuck]

Recently turned down a PIW job with an operator in the Arctic. With the first interview I was told six months, then the next day for the second interview it was a year. A few days later with job offer, it was 18+ months.

tbh im surprised but glad they were honest with you.. at the end.

[challenger_nami]

For any low hour pilot who is single and does not have the family obligations, my suggestion would be to take that Pilot In Waiting job up North until another opportunity opens up.

I am not trying to be negative, but the 18+ months seems realistic and probably will be longer before flying opportunities open up. The positive to that job on the ramp is that you are building an Aviation Related Work Experience for your resume and to prove yourself. That’s only If you are ALL IN and serious about making it as a future pilot.

For the type of person who just gives up when encountering the first hurdle, this would be the time to give up.

I know it sounds corny, but The person who does not know how to give up will rock on to glory that is beyond all these gloomy days.

[flyingjerry]

This is my view only, but I didn't spend 10's of thousands of dollars to work outside in harsh conditions for minimum wage in an undesirable town on the chance that I may be offered a cockpit after an undetermined amount of time.

I was extremely lucky (right time, right place) with my first job being in CYYZ, but in my opinion it makes no sense to move for any job where a PPC isn't in the contract. Even if it's 6 month down the line.

Especially now when lots of unemployed pilots with lots of experience will be looking. Flying isn't everything. Spend this time working somewhere enjoyable, saving money or creating a good life experience.

[challenger_nami]

This is my view only, but I didn't spend 10's of thousands of dollars to work outside in harsh conditions for minimum wage in an undesirable town on the chance that I may be offered a cockpit after an undetermined amount of time.

I was extremely lucky (right time, right place) with my first job being in CYYZ, but in my opinion it makes no sense to move for any job where a PPC isn't in the contract. Even if it's 6 month down the line.

Especially now when lots of unemployed pilots with lots of experience will be looking. Flying isn't everything. Spend this time working somewhere enjoyable, saving money or creating a good life experience.

I respect your point of view @FlyingJerry,
However, the “right of passage ” system of aviation in Canada will not change any time soon.


My recommendation above is for the person who is ALL IN for Aviation.

Just curious, What year was it when you found your first job in YYZ?



.

[2112]

The Times they are a changin, as a profession the last 3 years were spectacular for those just starting out. Unfortunately the party is over. I got my CPL in 2008 just prior to the financial shit-show. The reality is as others here have said If you are not 110% committed to a career as a pilot chances are good you will leave aviation and move onto a more stable Career. The ramp sucks yes, I did it for 2 years but did eventually get flying in 2010. My guess is for the next few years 95% of new CPL's who end up actually flying the line will be doing so in the North with the occasional unicorn that scores a gig down south. It is what it is and If I was back in the shoes of a new pilot I would be jumping at any job that gets me close to planes if that's what you truly want to do. Embrace the suck but enjoy the ride.

[challenger_nami]

The Times they are a changin, as a profession the last 3 years were spectacular for those just starting out. Unfortunately the party is over. I got my CPL in 2008 just prior to the financial shit-show. The reality is as others here have said If you are not 110% committed to a career as a pilot chances are good you will leave aviation and move onto a more stable Career. The ramp sucks yes, I did it for 2 years but did eventually get flying in 2010. My guess is for the next few years 95% of new CPL's who end up actually flying the line will be doing so in the North with the occasional unicorn that scores a gig down south. It is what it is and If I was back in the shoes of a new pilot I would be jumping at any job that gets me close to planes if that's what you truly want to do. Embrace the suck but enjoy the ride.

+1



.

[flyingjerry]

This is my view only, but I didn't spend 10's of thousands of dollars to work outside in harsh conditions for minimum wage in an undesirable town on the chance that I may be offered a cockpit after an undetermined amount of time.

I was extremely lucky (right time, right place) with my first job being in CYYZ, but in my opinion it makes no sense to move for any job where a PPC isn't in the contract. Even if it's 6 month down the line.

Especially now when lots of unemployed pilots with lots of experience will be looking. Flying isn't everything. Spend this time working somewhere enjoyable, saving money or creating a good life experience.

I respect your point of view @FlyingJerry,
However, the “right of passage ” system of aviation in Canada will not change any time soon.


My recommendation above is for the person who is ALL IN for Aviation.

Just curious, What year was it when you found your first job in YYZ?



.

I found my first (and only job) in 2018. Corporate/Charter King Air with an awesome operator. After a year and a bit I let them know that I had airline aspirations but was in no rush to leave, so they worked on finding a replacement for me. And that's when covid hit. Otherwise I may have still had a jo as they're still flying consistently.

[challenger_nami]

This is my view only, but I didn't spend 10's of thousands of dollars to work outside in harsh conditions for minimum wage in an undesirable town on the chance that I may be offered a cockpit after an undetermined amount of time.

I was extremely lucky (right time, right place) with my first job being in CYYZ, but in my opinion it makes no sense to move for any job where a PPC isn't in the contract. Even if it's 6 month down the line.

Especially now when lots of unemployed pilots with lots of experience will be looking. Flying isn't everything. Spend this time working somewhere enjoyable, saving money or creating a good life experience.

I respect your point of view @FlyingJerry,
However, the “right of passage ” system of aviation in Canada will not change any time soon.


My recommendation above is for the person who is ALL IN for Aviation.

Just curious, What year was it when you found your first job in YYZ?



.

I found my first (and only job) in 2018. Corporate/Charter King Air with an awesome operator. After a year and a bit I let them know that I had airline aspirations but was in no rush to leave, so they worked on finding a replacement for me. And that's when covid hit. Otherwise I may have still had a jo as they're still flying consistently.

2017 and 2018 were the peak years of the historic pilot shortage. Some guys/gals got hired by 705 operations as their first jobs because the operators had to cancel flights due to not having crew to fly the aircraft.

Unfortunately, that historic Pilot Shortage is on pause for now. I don’t think the shortage is over. I believe it will come back to 2019 level in 2024, and the shortage will be worse than before. I am on the record now: On Jan 1st 2025 we will see whether I am right or wrong.

An entry level pilot has to use the next couple of years to make a positive work history and references in anticipation for the market opening up.

[Eric Janson]

Recently turned down a PIW job with an operator in the Arctic. With the first interview I was told six months, then the next day for the second interview it was a year. A few days later with job offer, it was 18+ months.

That's a mistake imho - but it's your choice.

Nothing wrong with a little hard work - you'll learn some useful skills working around aircraft.

These are the companies that will keep flying - it's the big Airlines that are collapsing. Still more to come imho.

The name of the game at the moment is SURVIVAL - nothing else. A lot of people still have not understood this.

[pelmet]

The Times they are a changin, as a profession the last 3 years were spectacular for those just starting out. Unfortunately the party is over. I got my CPL in 2008 just prior to the financial shit-show. The reality is as others here have said If you are not 110% committed to a career as a pilot chances are good you will leave aviation and move onto a more stable Career. The ramp sucks yes, I did it for 2 years but did eventually get flying in 2010. My guess is for the next few years 95% of new CPL's who end up actually flying the line will be doing so in the North with the occasional unicorn that scores a gig down south. It is what it is and If I was back in the shoes of a new pilot I would be jumping at any job that gets me close to planes if that's what you truly want to do. Embrace the suck but enjoy the ride.

I spent years on the 'ramp' in a couple of different companies while I got my licenses and ratings. Starting at 18 years old, I enjoyed much of it as a maintenance helper in a company with everything from radials to jets where I learned a huge amount and then as a baggage handler at an international airport. Things took a while as I came out ready to fly commercially in a recession.

Probably a good thing for most to go through the climb from the bottom on the way to the top as it makes one understand the operational aspect much more. I suspect much better than the ones jumping up to the right seat of a jet in a couple of years with an attitude. Worked for me withy steps continuing along the way on multiple types from small to large. If you don't love aviation, you'll hate it but if you really love it and are patient, it can be very rewarding, even if you have dumped many lavs, stripped paint, polished aircraft and enjoyed weather from freezing cold to hot, sweaty days. Just be careful with your back. If job and income stability are a requirement, leave the business fast and fly as a hobby.

[fish4life]

My closest friends in aviation are ramp job ones, the pilots who take ramp jobs during a downturn end up a few years ahead of the ones that don’t want to move north since they will get sucked up into the first seats that open up before companies look outward.

[shimmydampner]

This is my view only, but I didn't spend 10's of thousands of dollars to work outside in harsh conditions for minimum wage in an undesirable town on the chance that I may be offered a cockpit after an undetermined amount of time.

Well then, you must not have done your research because, your luck notwithstanding, that's precisely what spending 10's of thousands of dollars on flight training is likely to get you, even during the best of times in this country.

Flying isn't everything. Spend this time working somewhere enjoyable, saving money or creating a good life experience.

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. You can very easily do both.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

This is my view only, but I didn't spend 10's of thousands of dollars to work outside in harsh conditions for minimum wage in an undesirable town on the chance that I may be offered a cockpit after an undetermined amount of time.

Well, I did. I fully expect that the 10s of thousands of dollars I've spent on flight training will exempt me from starting from the bottom.

[GRK2]

"Well, I did. I fully expect that the 10s of thousands of dollars I've spent on flight training will exempt me from starting from the bottom."

Well! Why don't ya come on by the office and we can have a coffee and a chat about how you feel you know it all already, just before you get your shit handed back to you and your arse gets tossed out on the street. Learn your place, show me how you have something we could use, like a better attitude, otherwise stop wasting our time. Seriously...some people's kids...