Pilot in Waiting or Flight Instructor

[BigBertha]

As a recent flight school graduate, I’m wondering what the best career path is in this day and age. I’ve seen a few pilot in waiting jobs which are advertised as a 6-12 month wait but are saying around a year now with the pandemic, or I could start my instructor rating and have a job guaranteed after with the flight school by summer. To me it sounds like both routes would have their pros and cons, as up north is better experience but the wait time sounds like it could be a gamble. My goal is to make it to the regionals once they start hiring again in the next few years.

[digits_]

or I could start my instructor rating and have a job guaranteed after with the flight school by summer

Are there still schools guaranteeing that?

Flying planes puts hours in your logbook. Loading planes won't.

[“Bob”]

Go the instructor route.

Then you can go DEC when the rampie whos been there for two years is still FO.

He can do all of the work and help you make the decisions since he has more experience in the organization and up north, and you can nap and make big bucks building up that turbine PIC.

He’ll probably resent you, but those PICUS sheets sure aren’t going to sign themselves.

[Heavy Rayn]

Yeah I’d recommend the instructor route too, especially if you somehow have a guaranteed job lined up after. Sure it’s an extra 8-10k. But after finishing the rating in 2-3 months you’re now flying for an FTU.

Say the wait time is 12 months at the ramp job. Instructor training takes ya 3 months to complete. At an average to slightly above average volume flight school you’re probably looking at 400-500 (let’s call it 500) hours in that 9 months.

So in a year’s time you could still be working the ramp with nothing guaranteed and your seat “based off company demand” or you could be a more marketable 750 hour pilot, as opposed to the 250 hour pilot that worked the ramp for a year. In a year’s time with 750 hours hopefully the industry has allowed folks with those numbers to hop into a right seat at an op. So in a year’s time you’re gonna either be a 750 FO with your ATPL pic time completed (or very near it) or a 250 hour FO with no PIC time.

[Big Pistons Forever]

The choice is not between loading bags and instructing, it is do you have the skills and desire to be a good instructor or not.

There is already more than enough crappy instructors warming the right seat of training aircraft wasting their students time and money while depriving them of decent instruction because they are only there to build hours until they get a "real" job.

Done properly the instructor rating is the hardest and most work you will ever put into your flying training in your career. After that being a good instructor is a personal commitment to putting the students needs ahead of yours and setting a high consistent standard of airmanship and pilot decision making.

Chose to start your flying career as an instructor because you genuinely want to instruct, not because you think you are too good to work the ramp.

Working the ramp is not just tossing bags it is a chance to learn the industry literally from the ground up while making valuable contacts and demonstrating your worth to the company.

[digits_]

Working the ramp is not just tossing bags it is a chance to learn the industry literally from the ground up....

This is a common reply in the ramp discussion. But I've always wondered: what valuable information would the OP learn by working the ramp for a year?

....while making valuable contacts ...

Valuable contacts that would hopefully lead to a flying job? If the alternative *is* a flying job, then why would this even be a factor in the decision?

.... and demonstrating your worth to the company.

Show them that you are willing to work at or under minimum wage for a carrot on a stick?
You don't need to spend a year on the ramp for an employer to decide if you are worthy of flying an airplane or not. I think most would know after 2 weeks, if not 2 hours.

Chose to start your flying career as an instructor because you genuinely want to instruct, not because you think you are too good to work the ramp.

Why are that the only two options? Can't fault the OP for working within the system. He can't change it. Even if instructing is not his dream job, I'd wager the average instructor, even the near-burnt-out ones, are more motivated than a ramp guy stuck in the same job for 2 years.

The instructor:
- is getting paid to fly
- made an extra sizeable investment for the rating
- is flying planes
- is becoming more marketable with every flight
- might not like the job
- but usally enjoys at least the first few months of it

The ramp guy:
- most likely hates the job from day one
- his only reason for taking the job is to move on
- is probably applying *everywhere* else from day one
- is losing his flying skills every day

It's a bit mental for an operator to hire a pilot on the ramp. It is the *only* person you are absolutely sure about that does not want to do the job. And he'll drop everything as soon as he gets a job interview somewhere else. They keep doing it, because for a short time, you are willing to move to Lake Nowhere and work for below market wages, in the hopes of finding a job.

[ReducedSeparation]

While both PIW and instructing offer their respective pros and cons, don’t forget there are also a number of different career paths that are worth considering. Survey, photography, floats etc and also more niche flying like towing gliders. Then you get to experience a lot on your own while still building hours and developing your skills. Of course any flying job is hard to come by these days, but they are out there.

[DirtyDashDriver]

The choice is not between loading bags and instructing, it is do you have the skills and desire to be a good instructor or not.

This I agree with.

Bad instructors breed bad students, and I hate to say it but there are a few pilots who want to be paid a lot of money because they're "professional", but then won't act like it when asked to do something that requires that professionalism. Thankfully, this is not the majority, but enough that it could possibly be solved by ab initio instructors giving a damned about their students instead of their logbooks.

.... and demonstrating your worth to the company.

I don't agree with this.

The company requires pilots, period. I demonstrate my worth to the company during the interview and initial training. I don't need a years' long apprenticeship to prove my worth to a CP who doesn't always demonstrate that respect back. Employment in any industry is a two-way street. Yes, the company will invest a lot in my training. But that's part of the deal of owning an aviation company. It doesn't mean you can treat your employees like garbage for a year or more, which is what some do.

If I don't demonstrate my worth, the company will fire me, and if I do, they'll see fit to move me to the left seat. But I'm not a slave hoping to gain my freedom from my master.

This is a common reply in the ramp discussion. But I've always wondered: what valuable information would the OP learn by working the ramp for a year?

It depends on the company. If we're talking straight passenger services, not much. If you're talking a bush op, then a lot.

Say the job requires that you handle Dangerous Goods on a routine basis, working the ramp teaches you way more about proper loading and handling than any textbook ever will. The extra benefit is that FO now doesn't need to be taught how to load the aircraft when they're sitting on the tundra in windchills of -70 - they've learned on the dock or at the airport in somewhat calmer conditions. Now that trainee can spend their time focused on learning other things.

Or maybe the person doesn't start on the ramp but starts in dispatch or training. Now that person is learning the practical applications of flight and duty times or how to work with Transport regarding a Part VII Training Program. BS to some, but I enjoyed my time on the ramp.

Valuable contacts that would hopefully lead to a flying job? If the alternative *is* a flying job, then why would this even be a factor in the decision?

Agreed. Valuable contacts can also come from the FTU side of things. I've certainly seen cases where it is the instructor asking a student for a job later in their career, so this too is a two-way street and not specific to a bush operation.

[digits_]

Say the job requires that you handle Dangerous Goods on a routine basis, working the ramp teaches you way more about proper loading and handling than any textbook ever will. The extra benefit is that FO now doesn't need to be taught how to load the aircraft when they're sitting on the tundra in windchills of -70 - they've learned on the dock or at the airport in somewhat calmer conditions. Now that trainee can spend their time focused on learning other things.

Have them assist in loading airplanes during the first 2 weeks of employment or training if those skills are required for that particular operation. No need to waste a whole year (or more) doing that.

[scdriver]

This is a common reply in the ramp discussion. But I've always wondered: what valuable information would the OP learn by working the ramp for a year?

It depends on the company. If we're talking straight passenger services, not much. If you're talking a bush op, then a lot.

Even in a bush operation where agreed, you will learn a ton, I don't think much beyond 6 months is necessary. There's a point after you've seen the operation and learned lots about a/c handling, care, decision making etc where you just need to go and fly in that operation to start learning more.

[ayseven]

Sometimes you can work years "in waiting". I did, and I was no closer to being hired as a pilot as I was the first day. I wasn't what they wanted, and my timing was terrible. But I didn't give up, because I couldn't see the writing on the wall. Did I fly somewhere eventually? Yes, and it worked out, but not the way I had hoped.

If somebody is going to pay you to fly an airplane, you do it. If you like slinging bags, and fuel drums, and generators etc, and being somebody else's gofer, do it.

[“Bob”]

There is already more than enough crappy instructors warming the right seat of training aircraft wasting their students time and money while depriving them of decent instruction because they are only there to build hours until they get a "real job”.

There it is.

It’s always the bad instructor.

It’s never the Class 1 who taught them. I mean, while we are blaming instructors can’t we blame instructor instructors?

It’s never the FTU who’s system of poverty wages encourages excess instruction and who’s policies don’t include qualifying candidates through interviews or solid CT procedures for lacklustre students.

It’s never the DTFE who keeps passing these victims of “crappy instructors”, thus ensuring that increased supervision never takes place.

It’s never the student who doesn’t study and doesn’t show up.

And it definitely isn’t Transport Canada for allowing all of this to continue to exist.

The FIG even has a term for all of this to prepare flight instructors: Projection. Yeah I murdered all of those people but my dad beat me every day so it’s not my fault.

So really...

It’s a former student doing his first real job who’s sitting next to another guy who’s forgotten how much of a waste of skin he was on his first day on the job. And when his flying or decision making is criticized, he takes the cheap shot on someone who isn’t there and who’s PTR notes would likely tell the real story.

You don’t need to take a vow of poverty and celibacy (though they will happen on their own) or any sort of special devotion to be a flight instructor.

In fact, those are the type of instructors most students hope they don’t get as eyes glaze over at the 100 page power point illuminating the expanded and mostly wrong theory of lift and stomachs churn and palms sweat on the second spin demonstration because the first one didn’t look as good on the 5 GoPros. #instructorlyfe #malepilot @paidprofessionalpropellerprofessor

All your job is to lead a horse to water. You can’t make him drink.

[Big Pistons Forever]

There is plenty wrong with flight instruction in Canada, but there is only one thing you as an instructor can control, that is how much work you put into being a good instructor.

My personal observation is that a lot of instructors are just marking time until they get a “real” job. However acting as a professional in whatever flying job you have is a choice you make. You can choose to be a good instructor or not, all I ask is those that don’t want to instruct, but are just doing it until something better comes along, pick another job.

[shimmydampner]

First, take whatever is available. Beggars can't be choosers and unfortunately, pilots are beggars again at the moment. Any job in the industry that is a flying seat or will lead to a flying seat is better than nothing. If you have multiple options, do whichever is best for you and best fits your life. Think about what you want your career progression to be, and plan accordingly. If you want to follow the herd and do the regional to mainline thing, instructing will probably get you there as quick as anything else. But know that not all hours are created equal. If you want to do something else or something more specialized or even if you want to cross a few items off the bucket list before you go airline, it may not be the best way to break in to that lane. For instance, if you want to be a legitimate bush pilot, instructing time is unlikely to impress anyone hiring a 185 pilot. They won't care that you've sat in the right seat watching 18 year olds hack away at steep turns and circuits ad nauseum. That adds zero value to their business. Like it or not, you may have to put in a summer on the dock.
That idea probably doesn't sit well with some of the posters on here, however when you ask for
advice on this site, you're far more likely to end up getting biased opinions coloured by personal experience. But it's up to you to choose whether you want to attack your career progression based on wishful thinking, or cold hard reality. Ego and emotion are not very useful when making these decisions. Leave them out of it and be calculating instead.

[“Bob”]

There is plenty wrong with flight instruction in Canada, but there is only one thing you as an instructor can control, that is how much work you put into being a good instructor.

My personal observation is that a lot of instructors are just marking time until they get a “real” job. However acting as a professional in whatever flying job you have is a choice you make. You can choose to be a good instructor or not, all I ask is those that don’t want to instruct, but are just doing it until something better comes along, pick another job.

Most of us are marking time doing a job we don’t want to do. I did as an instructor and I do now. Even pilots flying SLF to Europe or dropping retardant on fires and shooting bogeys out of the sky have limits on their enthusiasm.

But integrity is a vital component of any aviation job. Even a rampie. Can you imagine if a rampie was told to put X fuel in the plane but didn’t and then said he did?

There are cumulative costs to less severe actions as well. Cost of fuel and airframe time for sightseeing or fooling around. Running late and overtime from slow loading or fuelling.

You have to railroad a five why root cause analysis to a flight instructor for as to why a student had a mishap or paid too much for training or took too many hours to get a licence.

Like I say, I’m sure there’s at least one of my students out there who was caught fishing for a greaser or saying ACTPA who blamed it on me and not the YouTube influencer or flying club fossil who taught it to them.

So, a flight instructor is absolutely nothing special in aviation. Do the job if you can do it, do it the best you can. Don’t think for a second that it’s any more important or sacred than any other job in aviation. Lives and livelihoods depend on you no matter what you do.

[dash8driver]

Instructing %10E6

[ToolShed]

Instruct.

[BigBertha]

Is it possible instructing could be a dead end as everyone is resorting to it right now? I wasn’t necessarily guaranteed a job by a FTU, but was told if the demand was there i’d be hired with them forsure. On the other hand I was offered a PIW job, which even seems hard to come by these days.