Restrictions: Airline Jobs without PR

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tupues
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Restrictions: Airline Jobs without PR

Post by tupues »

Hi there,

I am in Canada on a work permit (Swiss national) and will be holding a full canadian ATPL in a couple of weeks.
I have noticed that employers often require applicants to hold either a canadian passport or a permanent residency to apply and will not accept people with just a work permit. Why is that so, is that just a preference from the respective employer or is there any deeper reason behind this (i.e. security clearance or the likes)?
As I am an express entry applicant and expect to have a permanent residency in the near future having a job offer would of course speed up the process, so from that end there is nothing really that speaks against anyone hiring me with just a work permit.

Any ideas?
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photofly
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Re: Restrictions: Airline Jobs without PR

Post by photofly »

Work permits are temporary; I can't see why anyone would want to take you on as an employee until you have the right to work here indefinitely. It might be helpful to you to have a job offer, but employers aren't generally out to help would-be employees, they're reasonably going to do what's best for themselves.
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digits_
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Re: Restrictions: Airline Jobs without PR

Post by digits_ »

tupues wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 7:23 am Hi there,

I am in Canada on a work permit (Swiss national) and will be holding a full canadian ATPL in a couple of weeks.
I have noticed that employers often require applicants to hold either a canadian passport or a permanent residency to apply and will not accept people with just a work permit. Why is that so, is that just a preference from the respective employer or is there any deeper reason behind this (i.e. security clearance or the likes)?
As I am an express entry applicant and expect to have a permanent residency in the near future having a job offer would of course speed up the process, so from that end there is nothing really that speaks against anyone hiring me with just a work permit.

Any ideas?
Small operators might be open to it if you have experience on the type of planes they fly. Airlines: highly unlikely. Maybe if you have some relevant type rating instruction/examiner experience, but one might wonder how relevant foreign experience is to fit into the canadian system.
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tupues
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Re: Restrictions: Airline Jobs without PR

Post by tupues »

Thanks for the replies!
I have plenty of valuable experience, that's not the issue, and I don't see why it would not be recognized even if its foreign - seems a bit narrow-minded that only Canadian experience would count. Since I am bilingual french and english an employer can sponsor me infinitely without an issue (just a matter of filling paperwork). I was more curious if a lack of PR or Canadian passport poses a problem getting the necessary security clearances and if that might be a reason?
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digits_
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Re: Restrictions: Airline Jobs without PR

Post by digits_ »

tupues wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 8:19 am Thanks for the replies!
I have plenty of valuable experience, that's not the issue, and I don't see why it would not be recognized even if its foreign - seems a bit narrow-minded that only Canadian experience would count. Since I am bilingual french and english an employer can sponsor me infinitely without an issue (just a matter of filling paperwork). I was more curious if a lack of PR or Canadian passport poses a problem getting the necessary security clearances and if that might be a reason?
As long as you can describe a 5 year work and living history, and provide proof if required, there would be no issue getting a RAIC. Note that all documentation for that has to be provided in English or French, certified translated your own expense.

It's not a matter if an employer is able to sponsor you (even though that might not be as easy to justify, hiring foreign pilots when there are a ton of unemployed pilots at the moment), it's that they might not want to.

Right or wrong, anything involving training and check rides, does not seem to translate well to the Canadian license system. For fun, you can check the CARs and see the requirements to transfer a foreign license to a Canadian one. It's fairly easy, except for the filght instructor class. You basically start from scratch and have to take 50% of the training, even if you were a super experienced foreign one. For an ACP / checkpilot position, that doesn't apply, but does show the mindset a bit. Things can be significantly different between EU/Canada/USA/...

What experience do you have, and what type of job are you looking for?
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
tupues
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Re: Restrictions: Airline Jobs without PR

Post by tupues »

Interesting, thanks.

The story is that I have a job kind of lined up (with very good internal references at the company in question), if it wasn't for (at the moment) the missing ATPL and my status in Canada. As the former is about to be resolved, it is more about the status that I am worried and that could be the thing holding me back. My experience is nothing out of the ordinary, just a regular line-pilot for 12 or so years, so no invaluable experience, but nothing that would be useless either.
But since you mention that there is factually nothing preventing an employer from hiring a non-Canadian/PR holder it really seems to come down to the willingness of the employer.
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fish4life
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Re: Restrictions: Airline Jobs without PR

Post by fish4life »

Pretty much all the airlines are a few years away from hiring since they have so many laid off pilots still. You might have your PR before it matters anyway
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CXALE
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Re: Restrictions: Airline Jobs without PR

Post by CXALE »

Imho, work permits eventually needs to get renewed, so that could be an issue. I imagine you have an open work permit based on your spouse? If for some reason It cant be renewed then yours expire also. You company could apply for a work permit for yourself of that happens, however they gonna need a LMIA, and I guess in the current climate it will hard to get
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tupues
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Re: Restrictions: Airline Jobs without PR

Post by tupues »

CXALE wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 12:33 pm Imho, work permits eventually needs to get renewed, so that could be an issue. I imagine you have an open work permit based on your spouse? If for some reason It cant be renewed then yours expire also. You company could apply for a work permit for yourself of that happens, however they gonna need a LMIA, and I guess in the current climate it will hard to get
Yeah that would normally apply. However, because I am bilingual I am LMIA exempt so it would be relatively easy for them to hire me from an immigration perspective.
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rigpiggy
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Re: Restrictions: Airline Jobs without PR

Post by rigpiggy »

tupues wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 8:19 am Thanks for the replies!
I have plenty of valuable experience, that's not the issue, and I don't see why it would not be recognized even if its foreign - seems a bit narrow-minded that only Canadian experience would count. Since I am bilingual french and english an employer can sponsor me infinitely without an issue (just a matter of filling paperwork). I was more curious if a lack of PR or Canadian passport poses a problem getting the necessary security clearances and if that might be a reason?
well maybe if their was reciprocity, Oh wait there is EASA doesn't accept CDN experience either. We have a glut of unemployed pilots here already, what do you bring to the table that folks already here don't
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tupues
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Re: Restrictions: Airline Jobs without PR

Post by tupues »

No need for hard feelings. I guarantee you that EASA gives you credit for flying hours and whatever experience you get here. Why shouldn’t they. But of course you have to convert your license like I have to, to work here.

Weird how people think that experience gained elsewhere is useless. Especially for employers that would make no sense at all. What about all the pilots coming back from the Middle East and looking for work here. The decade they spent in the Middle East worth nothing?
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ayseven
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Re: Restrictions: Airline Jobs without PR

Post by ayseven »

Canada has been giving away flying jobs to Europeans for years. Why stop now?
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Bede
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Re: Restrictions: Airline Jobs without PR

Post by Bede »

tupues wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 5:54 am Weird how people think that experience gained elsewhere is useless. Especially for employers that would make no sense at all. What about all the pilots coming back from the Middle East and looking for work here. The decade they spent in the Middle East worth nothing?
No one said the foreign experience is useless. It's just that, all things being equal, trying to get a work permit for someone when there are qualified applicants with the requisite right to work is quite difficult. When I see it work is when it is highly specialized flying such as ag-flying, water bomber, survey, etc.

Signed,

Another Swiss National
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tupues
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Re: Restrictions: Airline Jobs without PR

Post by tupues »

I would agree. However since in the case mentioned, the individual already has a work permit, and is not looking to get one through the airline, the situation is slightly different.
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