What are CFI's getting paid?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:24 pm

It now takes an hour for the student to fill in the preflight paperwork and flights are often delayed.

Two questions come to mind:

( 1) Why does it take an hour to fill in the paper work before they fly, are they flying trans oceanic flights?

(2) Does an hour of paper work improve flight safety and if so how?

MichaelP · Post by **MichaelP** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:56 am

Answer:

(1) Researching the weather, getting all the ATIS reports over the phone etc even though a simple look outside like today will tell you it's bright sunshine...
Waiting for the aeroplane to come back from the delayed previous flight so that oil, and fuel can be checked, and a weight and balance report produced even though we already know the aeroplane will be under gross... I don't weigh that much!
Dispatch won't give the key to the student until it's all done and co-signed by the instructor.

(2) No.

Rules are rules and we have to abide by the company's SOPs. But in the context of the above, it's unpaid time for the instructor.
I can't criticize the above, it is required procedure, but in the past we have largely ignored it and gone flying.
Do I do it every time I fly?...

Did you sell your 150?

Shotgun10 · Post by **Shotgun10** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:35 pm

That is why ALL schools should be required to pay BASE pay. I have ran two schools and all my instructors had base pay. This was a few years ago but a Class 4 got 500, class 3 got 750, class 2 got 1000 and a class 1 1500. They were all required to put in 8 hr days min 5 days a week. This prevented an empty school when prospects walked in for tours or fam flights when bookings were low. This is the cost of doing business of keeping people happy and wanting to upgrade which made the instructors better and happier. Instructors will always leave for better paying jobs and should be supported while doing so. Why should you hinder what is going to happen anyways. Most instructors will be carrying about 55k to 60k of debt. It's a shame a line worker at Micky D's makes more than most instructors at most schools.

MichaelP · Post by **MichaelP** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:43 pm

The West London Aero Club paid £500 a month base pay, the CFI said he wanted his instructors to be able to live.
Then they were paid £8.50 an hour for 20 hours a month, £12.50 for 20 to 30 hours, and £20 an hour for hours above 30 flown in a month.
One could live on that.
Getting the JAR licences is an expensive business though...

Today another of the realities of this business came home.
I was booked at 10:00 this morning... I arrived promptly to find my booking had been cancelled due to the only real aeroplane we have needing a 100 hour check.
Another instructor was flying off the remaining couple of hours in my slot.
My student was told yesterday, I found out on arrival.
My afternoon's student could have been rebooked in a Cessna 152 in the afternoon, we could have started his 5 hours instrument time... But this was not done either and all the 152s were booked solid.

It used to annoy me greatly when students cancelled late... If they had good reasons I wouldn't ask for the no show charge.

Today is a no money day and I can't bear this too often.
If I stay around the aerodrome I'll be asked questions, free information I am only too happy to give to my fellow instructors, it's the price of experience. But I have my tolerance limit, if I'm paid fed and happy there's no limit to what I will do for my fellow aviator.
Sad and hungry, there's still no limit, but then I resent myself for doing it...sometimes

I left the aerodrome, drove to the Flying Beaver and had lunch... I watched the float planes in and out... That's a job I'd like to do.
Pale Ale was on special, but I didn't; day VFR I stay away from alcohol.

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:13 pm

How many hours do you have now? Perhaps its time to buzz off and leave that crappy treatment for some different crappy treatment.

Type rating instructor-pilots are well-paid and usually happy, although the flying is somewhat less than you get as a fire-bomber. If you love to instruct, are not just doing it to get ahead, go get some experience and come back to it. Good pay, good rosters, good benefits plus some great type ratings...what more is there? Level D sim., anyone?

For example, there is a job for a Dash8 instructor in YVR right now...
Cathay pays $120k Canadian plus a huge housing allowance to run a sim in HK...
FlightSafety allows you to get any type rating they offer, as a perk - BBJ, anyone?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:22 pm

I can't criticize the above, it is required procedure, but in the past we have largely ignored it and gone flying.

O.k. so everyone does it because it is required proceedure,,yet in the past it was not done.....

....so what benefit is there now for the private pilot student to take longer to plan a local flight with an instructor than it takes us to plan an trans oceanic flight?

Did you sell your 150?

I have lucked in and sold a 1/2 share to an old friend who is going to get his PPL on it with a free lance instructor.

Will be doing the annual on it on sunday and it will be flown out of Delta Airpark until he gets his PPL.

MichaelP · Post by **MichaelP** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:31 pm

O.k. so everyone does it because it is required proceedure,,yet in the past it was not done.....

....so what benefit is there now for the private pilot student to take longer to plan a local flight with an instructor than it takes us to plan an trans oceanic flight?

It pacifies the authorities after recent incidents that displeased them.

IMHO We have to be careful about doing a lot more than is legally required by the regulations because what we do sets a precedence which then sets the future regulations.

I always believed that we should teach a pilot well with proper skills and decision making abilities.
Unfortunately, the current climate is set to regulate this previous privilege because real instructional talent is transient enroute to the airlines and has to be replaced with inexperience.

I am fortunate in many ways, working part time for a company that has the audacity to buy a tailwheel aeroplane, and allow us to teach people how to get into strips like Hastings Field.
I taught aerobatics too, and the TC examiner even did aerobatic instructor rides in the aeroplane... Then they decided flying without "Aerobatics" on the OC was a bit naughty and I had my knuckles wrapped for doing it!

We still have fun, and we still do more real flying than any other organisation on the field.
Sometimes though, the busiest aeroplane, (the real one), runs out of time and into yet another check...

How many hours do you have now?

People used to say I had more hours than God! and that was a long time ago.
But what hours have I got, 30 float, some 70 odd Multi Engine... My IR is current if I go out and do a few approaches...
The rest of my time: single engine land, most of which is tailwheel, does not really count.
I got my PPL 33 years ago on the 9th July. I learned the old RAF style and it has stuck with me since and kept me safe.

Tomorrow I think I'll polish the windscreen on the Decathlon, and take it or the Chipmunk to the Pitt Meadows open house... There are some advantages to the experience I have