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Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:43 am
by tzu
CD wrote:You're welcome...



:smt023

Credit Hound :prayer:

I'm sure your memoirs will soon be available for purchase at amazon.com :D

All kidding aside, thanks.

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:24 pm
by crazy_aviator
What i think would be very good to see is documented Proof of case histories wherein pilots, AME s etc have been wronged by the industry/system and have taken it to court or arbitration or through any governent agency and WON ! Evidence to the effect that WE CAN fight and WIN would go a long way to SUPPORT every person contemplating doing the right thing ,,,,,,,,Kirsten ?

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:39 am
by FlaplessDork
crazy_aviator wrote:What i think would be very good to see is documented Proof of case histories wherein pilots, AME s etc have been wronged by the industry/system and have taken it to court or arbitration or through any governent agency and WON ! Evidence to the effect that WE CAN fight and WIN would go a long way to SUPPORT every person contemplating doing the right thing ,,,,,,,,Kirsten ?
I won my labour case against a former employer who fired me for snagging airplanes. It is possible.

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:41 am
by Mach 92
I am currently involved in litigation over training costs with my former employer and so far it is not looking good. It appears to be cheaper to settle for half the bill ($20,000) to get the employer off my back vs paying more than that to take it to court. Something not right about that. Pilots need a lawyer who is willing to take on sh&*tty employers pro-bono.

Stay tuned......

Re:

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:27 pm
by bandaid
CD wrote:
rsandor wrote:This thread needs to be a permanent "sticky" thread.
I would agree with that... :smt023

However, at this point, the mods seem to like the information posted in the "deadbeat" pilot thread better so they have it up as a sticky instead. :smt017

So, in the meantime, we'll just have to keep bumping it to the top. :wink:
So what exactly did we do to you to deserve this comment? If I had the power to sticky it I would. Believe it or not, the mods have jobs that take them away from their computers and that makes it so that we cannot be here 24 hours a day.

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:22 pm
by CD
bandaid wrote:So what exactly did we do to you to deserve this comment? If I had the power to sticky it I would. Believe it or not, the mods have jobs that take them away from their computers and that makes it so that we cannot be here 24 hours a day.
Well, since the comment was made in 2007 much has changed. :rolleyes: At the time, the moderating team had certain priorities and threads such as the "deadbeat pilot" story was made a sticky.

Some members felt that perhaps information related to health and safety might be a bit more appropriate for highlighting... Of course, this thread is a sticky now in the Employment Forum. :smt023

As the original links were posted a number of years ago and have changed, here are the current links (as of June 2011):

TP13537 - Right to Refuse Dangerous Work on Board Aircraft While in Operation
Aviation Occupational Health and Safety
AC LTA-004 - Aviation Occupational Health and Safety Program
AC 0202R - Employer and Employee Rights and Responsibilities, with respect to Employees Refusing to Work in Dangerous Situations
TP 13900 - As an employer... Are you ensuring the health and safety of your employees?
Pilots Can Refuse to Work
TP 13844 - Score Your Safety Culture
TP 2228E-8 - Take Five ... For Safety: Pilots’ Rights

Canada Labour Code
Canada Occupational Health and Safety Regulations
Aviation Occupational Health and Safety Regulations (Revised)

Young Workers (Alberta)
WorkSafeBC: Young Workers at Risk (British Columbia)
Young Employees (Manitoba)
WorkSafeNB: Prevention at School (New Brunswick)
Young Workers (Nova Scotia)
Young Workers (Ontario)
Young Workers (Prince Edward Island)
Jeunes au travail (Quebec)
WorkSafeSK: Youth
CANOSH - Young Workers

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:01 am
by Darkhorse
This is an interesting subject as there are many sides and issues involved when it comes to the pilot or AME or general labourer working for an air taxi service, charter, or airline.

Most general employees are under provincial laws (correct me if Im wrong). Pilots fall under federal labour law. I am not sure what category AMEs fall under. Therefore, depending on what career you choose gives the employer and employee specific rules and rights.

There are many people which have been done wrong by the employer. Be it constructive dismissal or tactics used putting the fear of god into the employee, "if you (don't / do) this then you will not be promoted, upgraded, asked to come back, or just simply loose your job...

I had a personal experience where the owner and two subordinates threatened me and my job if I did not toe the line. The evidence gathered was weak and unrelated. This went to a lawyer which quickly stopped the employer in their tracks for constructive dismissal.. It happens. It is a difficult decision for an individual employee to make and carry out and of course there will be consequences immediately and in the future.

Now as professional: Pilots/ AMEs we put a certain amount of faith into the employer and into the government (Transport Canada). We believe that when we provide our services to an employer we will be treated with respect and paid accordingly. We also believe that if we have any issues we can approach the employer to discuss. If that fails we believe that we can turn to TC and ask for help. Having failed that we believe we can turn to the Labour board and address our issues with them. This can be a long process and daunting as you as an individual will have to take it on by yourself with limited resources and no support (except family).

So now what. Well maybe you have a union to help you out. But as someone pointed out in the early post - Unions are not perfect either but can be helpful depending on the union.

The last point about Pilots specifically is that they have a tendency to fight their own fights and run away from everyone else's. They are loaners. This is not a negative criticism just an observation. EMPLOYERS KNOW THIS and they use it to their advantage. AMEs are different in this category.. generally I have noticed that the AME crowd (correct me if Im wrong) stick together.

I believe that if Pilots and AMEs wanted to take more control over their future, the best solution would be to have a professional association similar to Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers. An association that can lobby the government to change the Labour code that will protect all pilots (200 hour and 10000 hour) from the bad employers, unsafe operations, low paying first jobs, and more importantly federal laws which allow the employers to tell you that "you can fly a 14 hour day in an Air taxi operation because we dont fly in the winter" When do most accidents happen???? Late summer.

It is up to the whole group of pilots to protect each other before one even gets into an employers c-185, or ATR 42

Cheers

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:48 pm
by Rowdy
Darkhorse wrote:"you can fly a 14 hour day in an Air taxi operation because we dont fly in the winter" When do most accidents happen???? Late summer.
Early on in the season too.. as the weather is still shitty, machines are fresh out of the hangar/yard/maintenance and the pilots are flying their bags off setting up camps for the season.

Who on earth came up with the bullshit 14hr duty day? When the standard has been 8hrs for everyone else? How many of us are not paid ANY overtime when crossing that 8hr threshold? How about more than 40hrs in a week? Right.. federal regs and NO one will touch them.

There are many areas that we as a pilot group need to band together and change. Most will increase the safety of operations and better our operations.

Darkhorse you are very very right. Pilots are way too far up their own behinds to care about anything or anyone else. Me. I. Mine.

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:16 pm
by travellinpilot
Too bad you get fired being safe. There are so many sketchy operators out there and maintenance who give you a hard time about snags