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Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:16 pm
by Widow

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:42 pm
by Bob A. Booey
How come transport doesn't test us on THAT stuff? Excellent links m'lady, much appreciated.

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:08 pm
by CD
You're welcome...

:smt023

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:10 pm
by Widow
Yes CD, thank you very much for having posted most of these in the past to make it easier for me to find them quickly!

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:20 pm
by North Shore
How come transport doesn't test us on THAT stuff? Excellent links m'lady, much appreciated.
Did you ever learn many useful things in school? How to change a tyre, first aid, how to cook, balance a chequebook...the list of what you should get taught is practically endless - why not a little employment law, seeing as most of us are going to be employed at one time or another...

why would you think that transport would be any different in terms of what they mandate for training?

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:53 pm
by rsandor
This thread needs to be a permanent "sticky" thread.

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:47 am
by CD
rsandor wrote:This thread needs to be a permanent "sticky" thread.
I would agree with that... :smt023

However, at this point, the mods seem to like the information posted in the "deadbeat" pilot thread better so they have it up as a sticky instead. :smt017

So, in the meantime, we'll just have to keep bumping it to the top. :wink:

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:57 am
by CD

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:24 pm
by marktheone
Bob A. Booey wrote:How come transport doesn't test us on THAT stuff? Excellent links m'lady, much appreciated.
If you need to be told that in this democracy perhaps you should pursue somthing in customer service.

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:26 am
by Shiny Side Up
marktheone wrote:
Bob A. Booey wrote:How come transport doesn't test us on THAT stuff? Excellent links m'lady, much appreciated.
If you need to be told that in this democracy perhaps you should pursue somthing in customer service.
Lots of those things on the list are things that not just pilots should know, but every potential worker in this country. Sadly most of them don't. If I remember rightly from the ads the Alberta government likes to run workers under the age of 20 account for more than half of the lost time accidents in this country. Which is funny seeing as though they seem so concerned about worker safety as to run ads about it - its a lip service - as nothing is in place to actually educate workers, especially new workers as to their rights and responibilities in the workplace. For those concerned about such things the government also turns a blind eye to what a lot of companies are doing for their so called "safety" programs, which are largely a method of absolving the company of any responsibility for worker safety. OHS and WCB usually only get involved after something bad has happened.

If I remember rightly, the Ontario government made an attempt to put in place the idea that you couldn't get a driver's licence unless you held a high school diploma - part of graduating high school then was to take a driver's safety course. The idea was quashed of course because it seems the public would rather remain uneducated (part of it was supposed to be an incentive for people to stay in school) and poor drivers. Possibly one could see the merits though of a similar program to be instituted in schools regarding classes on worker safety and workplace rights, therefore giving more weight to those whom have finished school in gaining employment.

Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:45 pm
by Widow
Unions do a good job of informing workers of their rights.

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:36 am
by Shiny Side Up
Widow wrote:Unions do a good job of informing workers of their rights.
Not all workers belong to unions, not all unions do a good job of this either. In my experience some unions have even signed contracts where money speaks more than worker safety. Maybe how unions should work should be added to that high school requirement I mentioned above.

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:18 pm
by Widow
The BC Federation of Labour do send an OH&S officers to local high schools to educate students on the Labour laws as part of their young workers safety program.

Air taxi pilots don't have a union available to them now, nor a professional association, a safety association, an ombudsman or an advocate of any kind.

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:51 am
by marktheone
Widow wrote:The BC Federation of Labour do send an OH&S officers to local high schools to educate students on the Labour laws as part of their young workers safety program.

Air taxi pilots don't have a union available to them now, nor a professional association, a safety association, an ombudsman or an advocate of any kind.
And still we survive. Amazing. Less govt or other type of interference the better. If you haven't got the backbone to know when to fly and when not to, find another line of work.

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:26 am
by Widow
marktheone wrote:And still we survive.
I'm sure you don't want me to remind you of how many have not survived ...

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:10 am
by Shiny Side Up
Widow wrote:The BC Federation of Labour do send an OH&S officers to local high schools to educate students on the Labour laws as part of their young workers safety program.
Then you are fortunate out there as this isn't the same attitude in Alberta. Work related deaths are the number one cause for people below the age of 40 in this province.
marktheone wrote:And still we survive. Amazing. Less govt or other type of interference the better. If you haven't got the backbone to know when to fly and when not to, find another line of work.
Like widow said, many don't. This attitude towards the issue onnly makes it worse. You're right, it would be better if we could trust things to work out without government involvement, but obviously we can't. Remember that if left to themselves companies would only pay into keeping their workers safe only to the point of where it doesn't cut into profit - in other words that life is cheap, equipment isn't.

Sadly enough its cheaper for a company if workers are killed rather than injured. Keep this in mind the next time you're flying.

Keep in mind we're also talking about precisely what our government is for. Individuals don't have the power to be going to bat themselves against companies and corporations - that's why we invest that in agencies like our labour boards and we fund WCB and in the case that those places we work for fail, we pay into employment insurance.

The problem being isn't that we need more government influence - we just need that government to start doing the job its supposed to.

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:41 am
by CD

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:44 pm
by Widow
Thank you CD!!! I will update my website when I get home from Ottawa next week!

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:48 pm
by Widow
Because accidents will always be discussed, because someone will always be looking for a way to call "pilot error" (especially when he/she is no longer alive to fight the allegations - it is, after all, the "cost-effective" determination of cause) ... I thought it would be valuable to add this information to this sticky thread ...

Remembering that, as a pilot, you are so often responsible for the lives of others as well as your own ...
Doc wrote:There is a minimum descent altitude on your approach plate. Read it. Do not go below that number.
There are approach bans. Adhere to them. They are there for a reason.
Put enough frikken fuel in your airplane to make the trip. The reserve is just that...a reserve. If your boss thinks you should use your reserve fuel for the flight, tell him to piss off. Do it.
If you fly into ice, and there is ANY doubt, turn around.
Your aircraft has a designed gross weight. Get to know it. Use it. It's a limitation.
If you are solo, make bloody sure your auto pilot works. Or, don't go.
If the weather is at limits, brief for the missed approach. Not the landing. The landing should be the surprise. Not the missed approach.
Don't let the Captain kill you.
When your co-pilot speaks...listen.
Stay away from hard approaches to limits at night. Circling limits only please. If your boss has a problem with this, have him call me.
Read the numbers on the runway.
Do not do intersection departures from northern strips.
Land and take off into wind.
If your aircraft has a snag, put it in the book.
The guys upstairs might not be the sharpest knives in the drawer, but you are the one that get to the accident site first.
Transport Canada, SMS and all the politically correct bullshit ain't going to help you. YOU are on your own. Be careful out there.
I say, PAY ATTENTION!
Widow wrote:And if I may add, if you know someone who is facing a should I stay or should I go problem, or who is being stonewalled over a safety issue - stand up for them. Support them in their decision. Make sure they aren't blackballed as a result. Remember, it could be you next time.
From this thread: Accidents

Re:

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:48 am
by Chris
marktheone wrote:
Widow wrote:The BC Federation of Labour do send an OH&S officers to local high schools to educate students on the Labour laws as part of their young workers safety program.

Air taxi pilots don't have a union available to them now, nor a professional association, a safety association, an ombudsman or an advocate of any kind.
And still we survive. Amazing. Less govt or other type of interference the better. If you haven't got the backbone to know when to fly and when not to, find another line of work.

Refusing to fly due to safety cost me my job. Now I'm stuck in another line of work, and having a tough time getting a flying job.

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:17 am
by Widow
Shame.

Clearly this is why
Shiny Side Up wrote:... we just need that government to start doing the job its supposed to.
Why aren't aviation accidents involving working pilots investigated with the same degree of efficacy as those performed by Worker's Compensation Boards? Why aren't pilots given the same access to resolution/protection from reprisal when they refuse to work for safety reasons? Why does the industry accept this?

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:28 pm
by Widow
From the Criminal Code:
425.1 (1) No employer or person acting on behalf of an employer or in a position of authority in respect of an employee of the employer shall take a disciplinary measure against, demote, terminate or otherwise adversely affect the employment of such an employee, or threaten to do so,
  • (a) with the intent to compel the employee to abstain from providing information to a person whose duties include the enforcement of federal or provincial law, respecting an offence that the employee believes has been or is being committed contrary to this or any other federal or provincial Act or regulation by the employer or an officer or employee of the employer or, if the employer is a corporation, by one or more of its directors; or

    (b) with the intent to retaliate against the employee because the employee has provided information referred to in paragraph (a) to a person whose duties include the enforcement of federal or provincial law.
(2) Any one who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of
  • (a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or

    (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:38 am
by CD
EDITORIAL
Too young to die, refuse unsafe work


March 28, 2009
BY This Week Staff

This Week offers our deepest sympathies to the family and friends of Bradley Ebbers. His death at 19 years old on a construction site in Kanata is a terrible loss.

The Ministry of Labour is still investigating the death of the young Metcalfe resident, so we can’t comment on what caused his death, but it’s clear that 19 is simply too young to die.

Media coverage of the former St. Mark student’s death has used the word “accident” a lot, but “accident” doesn’t seem appropriate for an event that caused the death of a young man. It has implications that it is just a chance event that happened.

Like the Workplace Safety and Insurance Board commercials say, “there really are no accidents.”

“Accidents” are preventable. People need to speak up when their employer asks them to do something that feels dangerous or unsafe. Unfortunately, for a young person starting on the job, it may seem intimidating to tell your boss that you’re worried.

No matter what your age, it important for workers to:

* Demand proper training.
* Wear proper safety equipment.
* Refuse unsafe work.

Remember, in most cases workers have a right to refuse unsafe work without losing their job. For more information on this topic, visit prevent-it.ca. There’s also a site specifically for young workers called www.youngworker.ca.

Employers also have responsibilities to keep workers safe. If you’re an employer and want to know more about what you should be doing to prevent accidents, there’s a link on prevent-it.ca to information about your responsibilities, as well as tools to help you get started making your workplace safe for your employees.

When it comes to the workplace, it is always better to be safe then sorry.

Full article here...

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:08 pm
by Wonderdog
Hey Widow, always remember, machine, mechanic, driver. I never forget as a mechanic, nor do I remember all the good stuff, but YVC has frozen over 4-6" blue clear and the hockey game should begin, tommorrow, and last until Thursday. Come visit some of these old farts and new snorts from town and enjoy. Ref not nessesary required.
Not to sure what the topic was, though you only have 2 rights in this big country.

Thanks,
SMcL.

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:24 pm
by Widow
Did you just invite us to LaRonge? :rolleyes:

Of course, mechanics also deserve a safe work place, and Transport Canada/Labour/HRSDC does not better at that than they do for pilots. But pilots are always the first to arrive at the scene of the accident.