bcflyer,
Just kind of curious as to how you "MORE than earned your checkout." There are many of us out there who have worked long and hard to get our checkouts. It was our work ethic that made us stand out amongst the group that we were with. So what you are saying is that we sold out to get where we are? Why should'nt a company get an idea of what kind of worker, or person you are before they let you loose in one of their planes? If you have to prove yourself by driving a forklift, loading a plane, or riding a desk to see how things work, like so many of us have....whats the problem with that? By refusing to do the same job that most of us have had to do to advance in our careers, you might as well tell us we were alll idiots for doing what we did! Suck it up, nothing worth having comes easy in life!
Realistic Ramp Time???
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore
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rex sterling
- Rank 1
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"...you are all idiots for what you did..." True Rex, true.
(Cue the recording) working the ramp is slave labour and is only necessary when times are tough. You can learn everything you need to know about an operation in less than a month - if you are not being checked out you are being hosed.
When will you get it through your heads, you paid your money, you passed the exams, you flew the checkride - you are professional pilots and the ramp is only an option if you need groceries while you look for a flying job.
(Cue the recording) working the ramp is slave labour and is only necessary when times are tough. You can learn everything you need to know about an operation in less than a month - if you are not being checked out you are being hosed.
When will you get it through your heads, you paid your money, you passed the exams, you flew the checkride - you are professional pilots and the ramp is only an option if you need groceries while you look for a flying job.
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
rex stirling....you are one of the many who worked long and hard for your checkouts? Your words. Not mine. If you think, that after spending upwards of THIRTY THOUSAND DOLLARS for a license only to work the ramp is the way to go...then YOU ARE part of the problem. And, you're probably only worth the slave wages the company, who's ass you're kissing, is paying you. Don't ram you 1990's attitude down anyone else's throat. If you had 250 hours when you started on the ramp......that's all the experience you have, that's worth a pail of rodent snot! Unless you want to be a fork lift driver.
xsbank...the ramp should only be an option for non pilots...or guys working towards their license.
xsbank...the ramp should only be an option for non pilots...or guys working towards their license.
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TopperHarley
- Rank (9)
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It's really easy to bash working the ramp in today's market, especially when companies quote you 2 years wait time. If I had 250hrs I'd probably laugh at them too.
But there will come a time again when the "lurking" days will return, and the 250hr pilot won't have nearly as many options as they do today. Salaries will drop, working conditions will deteriorate, and pilots will once again start to whore themselves out for a job on a navajo.
If you are offered a ramp job in today's market and have NO other offers, do yourself a favour and take the job. While you are working on the ramp, send out as many resumes as you can and keep applying to other companies. If a better offer comes up, LEAVE. If not, stick it out, it will pay off in the end.
13 months ago I was on the ramp. I just completed my captain's training on a metro a few days ago and will be doing single-pilot bagruns on the barons next month. Working the ramp worked well for me and has for many other pilots.
But there will come a time again when the "lurking" days will return, and the 250hr pilot won't have nearly as many options as they do today. Salaries will drop, working conditions will deteriorate, and pilots will once again start to whore themselves out for a job on a navajo.
If you are offered a ramp job in today's market and have NO other offers, do yourself a favour and take the job. While you are working on the ramp, send out as many resumes as you can and keep applying to other companies. If a better offer comes up, LEAVE. If not, stick it out, it will pay off in the end.
13 months ago I was on the ramp. I just completed my captain's training on a metro a few days ago and will be doing single-pilot bagruns on the barons next month. Working the ramp worked well for me and has for many other pilots.
"Never travel faster than your guardian angel can fly." - Mother Theresa
Doc, I think that's what I said and have always said, working the ramp is slave labour and not for pilots, unless they use it as part of a checkout. I mean a checkout RIGHT AWAY, not months or years from now.
The reason that companies use new pilots on the ramp is 1) no normal person would work the ramp for minimum wage or less; 2) a new pilot is naive enough to believe the bs he's told. 3) the management is so screwed up that they have no idea how to plan, staff, or actually run a business so they will lie like a sidewalk to get some dumb pilot to be a rampie.
Work the ramp and don't be a pilot, if you insist. Most of the guys who are now being checked out after having spent years on the ramp are years behind the guys who did not work the ramp.
Real, professional ramp guys, like good dispatchers, will make a company - why is it that management doesn't get it?
For any new guy who is looking for work, I know its hard to get that first job but apply as a pilot, that's what you are!
The reason that companies use new pilots on the ramp is 1) no normal person would work the ramp for minimum wage or less; 2) a new pilot is naive enough to believe the bs he's told. 3) the management is so screwed up that they have no idea how to plan, staff, or actually run a business so they will lie like a sidewalk to get some dumb pilot to be a rampie.
Work the ramp and don't be a pilot, if you insist. Most of the guys who are now being checked out after having spent years on the ramp are years behind the guys who did not work the ramp.
Real, professional ramp guys, like good dispatchers, will make a company - why is it that management doesn't get it?
For any new guy who is looking for work, I know its hard to get that first job but apply as a pilot, that's what you are!
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
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'effin hippie
- Rank 5
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- Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:44 pm
- Location: Further..further...ok, too far...
Shooter:
With 500+ hours you should have no trouble avoiding the ramp, however if all you have heard is '1-3 years' (HOLY @#$!!!!!) maybe you are a little too focussed on staying somewhere in particular?
Absolutely there are jobs for low-timers out there, but they are not in places most people want to live. If you don't know about these jobs, you have not done your research.
I guess the competition for jobs in places most people want to live is a wee bit more intense, and those operators might still be able to squeeze some ramp time out of potential hires.
Try to ignore some of the more strident posts here. You are NOT doing ANYTHING wrong by working the ramp. Absolutely avoid it if you can, because it sucks, but if a few months (certainly not 'years') gets you where you want to go, go for it.
Obviously everyone wants to fly right away, and is going to choose the quickest path they can find to that end.
And for those who think a CPL provides the god-given right to the cockpit, I'd ask you to think about the attitude of entitlement that engenders. I get your point, and the abuses this industry has seen are undeniable; but the good times have only been here for a couple of years, and I am already pretty sick of 500hr turbine FO's too good to change a few seats.
ef
With 500+ hours you should have no trouble avoiding the ramp, however if all you have heard is '1-3 years' (HOLY @#$!!!!!) maybe you are a little too focussed on staying somewhere in particular?
Absolutely there are jobs for low-timers out there, but they are not in places most people want to live. If you don't know about these jobs, you have not done your research.
I guess the competition for jobs in places most people want to live is a wee bit more intense, and those operators might still be able to squeeze some ramp time out of potential hires.
Try to ignore some of the more strident posts here. You are NOT doing ANYTHING wrong by working the ramp. Absolutely avoid it if you can, because it sucks, but if a few months (certainly not 'years') gets you where you want to go, go for it.
Obviously everyone wants to fly right away, and is going to choose the quickest path they can find to that end.
And for those who think a CPL provides the god-given right to the cockpit, I'd ask you to think about the attitude of entitlement that engenders. I get your point, and the abuses this industry has seen are undeniable; but the good times have only been here for a couple of years, and I am already pretty sick of 500hr turbine FO's too good to change a few seats.
ef
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canpilot
- Rank 7
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Ef hippe et al,
With 500TT + (mostly pic)However, none of this time is flying for a commerical air operator. The " time" comes from volunteering with cadets/ CASARA etc....while going to univeristy.
I'd rather not work the ramp for a few years.. A week/ month or so...fine. I don't want to sit hucking bags (which i've already done for a few years while getting my Cpl/ going to univ.) and never see a seat until the industry goes to crapola..at which time, my odds of getting a seat ..will be ..well..we won't go there..
I've been told that because this time is not logged flying for a commerical operation i'm basically at 200TT. eg. it doesen't count for shit..Hence the ramp!
I also don't give a @#$! where I live ..I want to go bush ..I'm looking for a C206/ C207, C185 etc job. I also have 70 hours on floats and hopefully a group 1 in a month or so.
With 500TT + (mostly pic)However, none of this time is flying for a commerical air operator. The " time" comes from volunteering with cadets/ CASARA etc....while going to univeristy.
I'd rather not work the ramp for a few years.. A week/ month or so...fine. I don't want to sit hucking bags (which i've already done for a few years while getting my Cpl/ going to univ.) and never see a seat until the industry goes to crapola..at which time, my odds of getting a seat ..will be ..well..we won't go there..
I've been told that because this time is not logged flying for a commerical operation i'm basically at 200TT. eg. it doesen't count for shit..Hence the ramp!
I also don't give a @#$! where I live ..I want to go bush ..I'm looking for a C206/ C207, C185 etc job. I also have 70 hours on floats and hopefully a group 1 in a month or so.
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'effin hippie
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flying4dollars
- Rank (9)
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Re: Realistic Ramp Time???
ShooterMcGavin wrote:I'm wondering what the realistic time working on the ramp is? I've been quoted 1-2 years. The reason I ask is because I believe that working on the ramp is valuable experience. At the same time I would like to get flying and think that I've got a decent number of hours to get a flying position.
what exactly do u consider a decent amount?
or...what do u have for time?
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ShooterMcGavin
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You have over 800 hours and you think working the ramp is a "great way to get to know the airplane and the operation"??? What the hell do you plan to do AFTER lunch?? Ya really THINK that with 800 hours you actually NEED to learn an airplane.....by what??.....loading it? Have some pride man!
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sky's the limit
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Doc wrote:You have over 800 hours and you think working the ramp is a "great way to get to know the airplane and the operation"??? What the hell do you plan to do AFTER lunch?? Ya really THINK that with 800 hours you actually NEED to learn an airplane.....by what??.....loading it? Have some pride man!
Bingo.
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flying4dollars
- Rank (9)
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800 hours and you'd consider working on the ramp....ShooterMcGavin wrote:Over 800 hrs. I think that working the ramp is a great way to get to know the airplane and the operation, and would consider working the ramp for those reasons. But I don't want to end up staying on the ramp for up to 2 years.
uh..
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Freddy_Francis
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Having 500 hours TT I’ been told from some company that they have hired somebody with more experience, yes there are probably pilots out there with around 800 hours willing to do the ramp, believe it or not!. I have a friend who is flying Airbus 320 in South America with 500 hours TT., what’s wrong with the industry in Canada?
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sky's the limit
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