carson

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sky's the limit
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Post by sky's the limit » Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:06 pm

northernpilot wrote:
STL: you're taking a very narrow view of perdiems. I agree....REQUIRED per diems are not pay. But when you are working a day job, most people bring food from home, so it is like pay. Like I said, when I overnight, I don't consider per diems part of pay...and in the case of Carson, if you do overnight, you get higher per diem for that day. Some operators structure their pay with a portion of it labeled as per diems, because it is better for everyone...it's a tax deduction for the company, it's tax free for the employee...everyone wins. It's still compensation. Step back and look at the big picture....in some cases, per diems are just straight pay with a different name.

Narrow view? I don't think so. I've seen about every pay/per diem structure out there, and Per Diems should never be counted in lieu of pay. I've been on the Management side of it too, I know how the structure works. They are there to feed yourself, which as you point out, you do anyway - grocery store/restaurant, it's your choice.

Justifying poor pay with Per Diems is narrow, short sighted, and detrimental to our industry. Per Diems are OFTEN paid for by the client IN ADDITION to the agreed upon rate for the contracted machine, these Per Diems are also OFTEN paid to the company based on Gov't standards, which the company then pares down and passes along to the Crews at a reduced rate. They make money off YOUR Per Diems. It happens ALL the time.

When I fly North of 60, I'm on $104/day, $60/day down south, do I pocket a fair amount of that? Yes. Is it even mentioned when negotiating my pay structure? NO WAY.

When will pilots figure out that wages in Canada are generally shit, and that all these companies operating across the county ARE making money - often, lots of it? Stand up for yourselves for God's sake, ask for wages that you can live on, support a family on, and reflect your relative responsibility or skills.

Narrow? I don't think so, informed, yes.


stl
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northernpilot
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Post by northernpilot » Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:52 pm

I don't disagree with you at all...and I know you have tonnes of experience, as do I...although you probably more than me. I have worked for many years in a situation where per diems were paid, and never considered part of the salary package. My per diems up north were $108 per day, of course on top of salary. We can get into a per diem discussion on another thread, if you like, however, I don't think we will have much to debate because I will probably agree with you on all points.

My point in this thread is merely that Carson decides how much they want to pay a pilot. In the case of an FO, it is around 31K. Then, they take advantage of the fact that part of that can be paid as per diems, which lowers costs for everyone involved. Is it fair? I am not making a judgment on that. Is it shit pay? Yes. Skylink does it, too.

I agree pay in Canada is shit for pilots, and for the record, I never worked on the Metro at Carson, nor would I ever. I think there are way better jobs around. But for many guys who don't want to leave the city, who are willing to sacrifice lifestyle for a year or 2 in order to get where they want to go, then I was just giving a realistic protrayal of the situation there.

cheers
np 8)
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privateer
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Post by privateer » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:43 pm

I found Kraft dinner on sale at Safeway today, ketchup was cheap too!
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Post by Krashman » Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:05 pm

I think there are way better jobs around. But for many guys who don't want to leave the city, who are willing to sacrifice lifestyle for a year or 2 in order to get where they want to go, then I was just giving a realistic protrayal of the situation there.

I've got some decent time... I don't care where I live and I'd rather stay out of a centre for now.... some ideas of places to look? PM me if you like
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Post by flying4dollars » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:17 pm

Krashman wrote:
I think there are way better jobs around. But for many guys who don't want to leave the city, who are willing to sacrifice lifestyle for a year or 2 in order to get where they want to go, then I was just giving a realistic protrayal of the situation there.

I've got some decent time... I don't care where I live and I'd rather stay out of a centre for now.... some ideas of places to look? PM me if you like

http://www.pilotcareercenter.com
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wxnut
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Post by wxnut » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:46 pm

if ur a 800 hr instructor with 600 hrs pic C172 time ... take the job, fly the twin, make minimal money and go through shit ... and grab ur valuable time and get the @#$! out of there (unless u manage to live with it).

I know the guys there... they're some solid guys. SB is a fantastic guy who helps you out in any difficulty possible.

Do you want to live in kelowna though?
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Kelowna Pilot
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Post by Kelowna Pilot » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:54 pm

Do you want to live in kelowna though?
Hey, don't 'dis the Ogopogo...

Seriously, though if you're a hourly worker, Kelowna is not the place to be. Cost of living is through the roof, and if you're in the renting class, which most pilots would be, the rental market is very tight.
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Valcore
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Post by Valcore » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:24 am

....the rental market is very tight.


and the girls aint! :wink:
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WhatThe?
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Post by WhatThe? » Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:54 pm

I think everyone should work for a shitty operator like Carson! Treated like crap, used and abused! So that way when they get to a more decent job, they will appriciate it!

Also the F/o's only make $19k, not $31?

Per diems are not wages!

PS: i have heard that management uses the perDiems as punishment, don't forget the inter-office box...or forget to wash the plane in your "spare" time!
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SkyKing
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Post by SkyKing » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:25 pm

Totally agree with WhatThe?!!!!
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Brrrrrr...

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