Central Mountain Air

[Invertago]

If your single and mobile, there are much better options up north then CMA, especially in this economy. Hell, if you're single, staying in the city is silly. If I where single, I'd be chasing KBA night and day!

[Mustang06]

I'm not single and I'll be father in 6 months, however I wouldn't mind work for KBA.

[Invertago]

LOL, me too actually, a few years at KBA would be for the memories!

[iflyforpie]

If your single and mobile, there are much better options up north then CMA, especially in this economy. Hell, if you're single, staying in the city is silly. If I where single, I'd be chasing KBA night and day!

That's what I would be doing too. I know of a few family guys who are there and make it work, but it's just not for me. But neither would be making minimum wage on a 1900 to top out at what I am already making here.

[Beacon]

I've worked with lots of guys who have started at CMA and done the ramp thing, and others who have gone elsewhere (often up north) to get some flying experience.

The ramp program works really well at CMA for both the candidate and the Company. For those that have commitments in the cities that CMA flies, the ramp is the best choice for them. For those that are able to pack up the car and go up north for an adventure and flying job, then the CMA ramp might not be the best choice. Its a personal preference often determined by need.

I HIGHLY recommend going up north to get your start in a flying career. Not only will you get to fly in some different airplanes and situations, but you will meet others in the same situation and will make friends that will last your entire career. Assuming you don't always drink their beer, they might even give you a reference at a company that they have moved onto.

CMA is a great company. The pay is average, the benefits better than most, and the job stability about as good as it gets in aviation. It may not be right for everyone, but its a great option.

All the best in you career.

[Invertago]

What / where are you flying now pie?

[iflyforpie]

I'm flying and tinkering on some small Cessnas in the east Kootenays.

[glenlivet]

Any idea if they will be hiring this summer?

[Invertago]

They is usually a small trickle of hiring when ever big red hires guys. That being said, I don't think big red is doing much at the moment.

[A2G]

I don't think big red is doing much at the moment.

Isn't that a gum?

[Invertago]

Ya... its a gum... but no one is chewing it anymore so their corporate flight department might shut down.... ya smart ass

[Fife_Sound]

Quag Mire

Some clarification from an insider...... I've read the replies to your post and thought you'd like to know.

CMA is a great place to work, make no mistake. The company has issues (what company doesn't?) but the people, the airplane and the experience are great. Does the pay suck? Well, perhaps, but its all relative, to me anyway.

Regarding hiring. It does help if you know a pilot there, especially a Captain but a reputation for a solid work ethic and a couple of solid references are key. Especially now. I'm not so sure about the 1000 hour line in the sand......... If you have some PIC time (in anything), that certainly helps too. But CMA is not unlike all the other operators in the country; when the hiring starts again (hopefully the hiring isn't more than a year or two away), their minimum requirements change to reflect supply and demand.

The Ramp/CSA/Dispatch/Groomer Low Time Pilot Pool.............. I agree with some of the replies to this thread, if you can find work (in an airplane) elsewhere, think twice before turning it down, it may indeed be a long wait on the ramp before you're picked for a ground school. A couple of things to consider. First, there was a period where CMA wasn't taking anyone off of the low time list and they still couldn't keep up with attrition. The company has considerably fewer left seaters than right. When its all working well, they try take two low timers per ground school but you will appreciate that removing two (very experienced) dispatchers from head office in Smithers, might just turn out to be a difficult decision, just for the sake of adding two F/Os to the roster. Same goes for the guys on the ramp.

Basing......... Basically, you go where you're needed. You're less likely to go to Smithers (because that's where the senior folk work), and more likely, you'll go to Cow Town or maybe Vancouver. Once you have a line on the roster, you can start bidding for a base but it all comes down to pilots being hired and leaving CMA.

Conversely, the low time guys are fantastic to work with. They are exceptionally knowledgeable about the aircraft and they know the IFR world pretty darn well. And they can fly, some of them exceptionally well. Problem is, the low timers are truly stuck in the right seat for quite a long time, which is why I would suggest getting some PIC elsewhere, then giving CMA a try. The thing is, aviation is about as far removed from the 'Perfect World' as a vocation can get, but all of us here are in it for a reason. And being at CMA aint so bad.

Because the pay is a shade lighter than other companies, pilots sometimes have to have second jobs when they work for CMA. Its a fact of life. But as much as people might sound off about the pay, they still want to work for the company because they know its valuable ink in the log book. And the low time list continues to be filled in when somebody gets the call for training. I guess thats a theme which is all to common to many a thread on this web-site: sacrifice. I still ask myself why I do it? Well, maybe its because there is a glimmer of hope for WJ or AC to call but in the end, we're all in a pretty good place, especially now and really, it doesn't matter if the Bigs call, there are other opportunities out there. We just think our chances are better at CMA. Who knows?

Even though the flavour doesn't last as long, I prefer Beaman's gum to Big Red..................... Its not just Big Red that hires CMA people. WJ took a large number of CMA Captains last year and hopefully that'll continue in the future. (And Jazz took quite a few we well, including a large chunk of F/Os). I think that CMA is a great place to be and hopefully it'll continue to look attractive on a resume. You get Level D sim time (an incredible experience), the training is incredible (and demanding), the people are great, the airplane is amazing, the maintenance is top notch, and the schedule (while it may contain one or two days more per month than we'd like) is really quite relaxed. (Unless you're based in Calgary, where you'll pretty much average 1000 hours a year).

Sorry for the Gale Force long winded message. Hope it helps.

[Invertago]

Thanks for the post Fife, those of us from the outside appriciate the info. Helps to know what is out there.

[shagger]

Great Post Fife

Could you tell me if there is a need for direct entry Captains soon and what type of requirements are being sought.

Shagger

[Fife_Sound]

Shagger

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner.

The hiring has pretty much come to a halt at CMA. When the rest of the industry starts moving again, I'm sure there'll be quite a bit of movement. Folks are pretty tight lipped about jumping ship but I know a few who are quite anxious for Westjet to call. I think they're pretty well full up on Captains at the moment, even here in Calgary and I think there'll be a few guys ready to upgrade in the next few months.

The direct entry left seat thing isn't always clear. Again it depends on supply and demand but I think the guys that came in the last year all had at least 500 multi pic or more and some turbine time to boot.

A note of caution though...........

There have been quite a few people who haven't made it through the training for whatever reason. If you're close to whatever requirements they're asking for its a good to consider that you'll likely want to (or have to) spend some time in the right seat. They could left seat PPC you but seeing how things work from the right seat is a good way to gain some experience.

Anyway, hope this helps.

[100LL81]

Just looking for any updated info for CMA as I am very near the end of my training and want to apply at CMA. How many people on the list right now? Any movement from WJ's new hiring? This low time pool of theirs, is there a minimum hours or can I apply with 205 hours as long as I have my multi, IFR and IATRA?

Thanks

[Invertago]

Just looking for any updated info for CMA as I am very near the end of my training and want to apply at CMA. How many people on the list right now? Any movement from WJ's new hiring? This low time pool of theirs, is there a minimum hours or can I apply with 205 hours as long as I have my multi, IFR and IATRA?

Thanks

Their website answers all of their minimums in their own words. As for WJ and movement, I don't know if WJ hired any of the CMA guys this round. Also, at 205hrs, its a ramp job.

[300_hour_wonder]

we have had at least one hired at westjet and I'm sure there are a couple more coming soon

low time pool as said on the website is group 1 ifr, cpl, iatra

its not the shortest ramp wait by any means but i think its a pretty good gig.


PS i could be wrong (it has happened before) but i belive in order to actaully have a valid iatra you need 250 hours but you only need 180 hours to write or somthing along those lines

[100LL81]

Thanks guys, I do know that with low hours I can only expect the ramp. I have no issues with this at all, I was just curious if there was minimum like 250 or 300. It does not say on the website, just says low time pool. Obviously everyone that meets their mins would have at least 200 hours. Thanks again, hope to see you on the ramp soon.

[aV1aTOr]

Yeah the ramp gig requires a valid IATRA, and you can write that pre-250, but it becomes valid at 250.

As for the wait on the ramp, as a few have mentioned, things have slowed in the past couple years. It used to be 2 per gs and now it's back to 1, and I believe the current number 1 guy in the list is well over 2 years. Having said that, once you've paid your dues it is as good a start as you could ask for in this industry. Pay is low (if you're not used to that, get out of aviation) but maintenance is top notch, training is excellent (level D annually) and schedules are fair (19 days a month, seniority bidding system, between 50 - 90 hours per month, choices between day pairings, overnights, stand-ups and reserve). Pilot group is a great bunch to work with.

As some have alluded to, going right seat with 250 has it's drawbacks; you will be stuck til you have an ATPL which will be just shy of 3000. On the other hand when you get there you will have a log book full of multi turbine time. Also seniority carries over from FO to Capt so that's a small reward for the wait. Company is very pleased with the low time program - I have been told (by management) that it produces the best pilots they have, and the majority of pilot problems they have are the result of higher-time guys with bad habits/attitudes. Learning to fly a 1900 is NOT rocket science, and more 3000 hour candidates (many with multi turbine time) wash out in initial training than low-timers.

The 1000 hour line is a hard one, however a note of caution about pushing for 1000 hours to skip the ramp line - once you do have 1000+, your resume goes in the direct right seat pile (and it's a big pile). Don't count on the phone call for a while. In the last couple years the average call-back time was in the 2500 - 3500 neighborhood (with a solid internal reference).

If you want to work at CMA my advice is this: join the ramp line if you're willing to wait, if not, or you have over 1000, look elsewhere til you have over 2000, otherwise you are most likely wasting your time.