2nd interview - Ornge

[inuitgifts]

Hi yall

Just wondering what the second interview is all about at Ornge. Passed the fist one. Any insight is much appreciated. Thanks!

M.

[Brown Bear]

We're all SO proud of you. Did you borrow the 10K from your daddy? Or did you just sell yourself on the street corner?

[NorthSky]

Yep; they ask if you're a desperate whore willing to fork over 10K of your own hay for your next gig.

And then you will say ...

Hi yall

Just wondering what the second interview is all about at Ornge. Passed the fist one. Any insight is much appreciated. Thanks!

M.

[inuitgifts]

Well... it actually sounds like a really good opportunity. And the salary and benefits are by far, way better than anywhere else Ive seen for my experience level.

So, if anyone could tell me what to expect for the second interview, that would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[Donald]

Was this intentional???

Hi yall

Just wondering what the second interview is all about at Ornge. Passed the fist one. Any insight is much appreciated. Thanks!

M.

[lostkiwi]

LMAO

[pilot21]

Second interview is much the same as first but no chief pilot or ops mngr present. Alot of hr questions no technical at all. If you got asked back chances are very good. GOOD LUCK and don't take negative comments to heart.

[Cat Driver]

Was this intentional???

Only metaphorically.

Realistically paying cash to work is being fisted.

[Changes in Latitudes]

How many Inuit gifts are you going to have to sell to pay that bond up front? You do realise that by doing so, you're bringing our entire industry down to an even lower standard.

Disgusting.

[inuitgifts]

I actually very much disagree.

Its a matter of simple accounting.

ORNGE - 50k a year - 10k bond = 40k a year + (pension, 100% bursaries for university, bonus & benefits)

vs.

MOST OTHER COMPANIES - 27k a year - no bond = 27k a year (no pension, bonus or benefits).

The salary by itself is almost double. Keep in mind that you get the 10k back at the end of the year. The wages as a whole are quite low across the board for most airlines. So, your argument as to why its so horrible to pay for a bond, is in reality trading a Loonie for 4 quarters.

[Changes in Latitudes]

I actually very much disagree.

Its a matter of simple accounting.

ORNGE - 50k a year - 10k bond = 40k a year + (pension, 100% bursaries for university, bonus & benefits)

vs.

MOST OTHER COMPANIES - 27k a year - no bond = 27k a year (no pension, bonus or benefits).

The salary by itself is almost double. Keep in mind that you get the 10k back at the end of the year. The wages as a whole are quite low across the board for most airlines. So, your argument as to why its so horrible to pay for a bond, is in reality trading a Loonie for 4 quarters.

Hmmm so we're cool if I call up and offer them 15k up front, because, well, as you say, I'd still come out ahead. Tell me again why you're not worth the 50k?

[Cat Driver]

I can see a double whammy here as far as the safety factor goes.

Single engine IFR.

What level of experience will they get from pilots willing to pay $10,000.00 Cash for a job?

[Dino]

Just curious, what kind of experience level is required to avoid the bond issue?

[inuitgifts]

I actually very much disagree.

Its a matter of simple accounting.

ORNGE - 50k a year - 10k bond = 40k a year + (pension, 100% bursaries for university, bonus & benefits)

vs.

MOST OTHER COMPANIES - 27k a year - no bond = 27k a year (no pension, bonus or benefits).

The salary by itself is almost double. Keep in mind that you get the 10k back at the end of the year. The wages as a whole are quite low across the board for most airlines. So, your argument as to why its so horrible to pay for a bond, is in reality trading a Loonie for 4 quarters.

Hmmm so we're cool if I call up and offer them 15k up front, because, well, as you say, I'd still come out ahead. Tell me again why you're not worth the 50k?

Well, I certainly don't think I'm cool. But I would like to work.

Am I worth 50k? I think with all the training I have gained over the years, I am probably worth 100k. I'm certainly worth much more than a financial officer sitting behind a desk, or a police officer or a teacher... who all make 50 - 60k starting. But it has nothing to do with what I'm really worth. Its what the markets of supply and demand tell me Im worth. And it just so happens, that there are only so may jobs available with way too many candidates applying for each one.

Every job post that comes up on Avcanada, their are over 150 applicants in a span of 2 days who apply for them. That's what all the CP's told me. So... with those numbers alone... its not hard to realize why wages in our industry are as low as they are.

Are hockey players worth 5 million a season?.. I wouldn't think so... but reality is such.. that only 50 other people in the world can do what they do. So the laws of supply and demand pay them as such.

If I work up in Nunavut for 30k no bond... like... in my eyes.. that's just as bad as taking a job like voyageur that pays 60k with a 15k bond. Most professionals in Nunavut are making 60 - 70 k minimum a year while pilots make only 30k.

So... I'm not about to fight the system.. that's just the way it is.

[Cat Driver]

So... I'm not about to fight the system.. that's just the way it is.

It is the way it is because pilots make that way.

[inuitgifts]

NO... your wrong. Its that way because of the shear numbers that drive people to be that way.

Any system worth changing never ever happens from the bottom up... ALWAYS from the top down.

If training costed 90k instead, and you were required to have a University degree, no criminal record and get a high score in your pilot training to even consider applying for the majors.... their would be 60% less pilots in Canada now... thus they would be paid much more adequately. That would be "fixing" the system from the top down.

It is really naive and futile to think that pilots should be responsible to fix the system from the bottom up. Just like its futile to expect consumers to buy green environmentally friendly products, or not drive their cars as much in order to save the environment. It will never happen on its own. Your fighting a losing battle.

[ng78]

Cat Driver would rather take a $30,000 a year job with no bond than a $50,000 a year job with a $10,000 bond. I'm not happy that Ornge is using the training bond, but inuitgifts is absolutely correct. I'm sure Ornge has literally thousands of applicants, so they can do what they want in order to protect themselves.

[Just another canuck]

inuitgifts, you make some good points. I'll give you that... it is naive and futile to think the young pilots can fix the problem from the bottom up. You are unfortunately, fighting a losing battle on this forum. No one is going to support your opinion that bonds are a good idea because they are not. I can't imagine the stress you will be feeling over the next year... that feeling that you may not see your money again. You know you might not get it back, right? We've all seen the contract and quite frankly, it's f**kin' joke!!!

[Just another canuck]

so they can do what they want in order to protect themselves.

Protect themselves from what??? The terrorists? The dark side? Crime? They have millions of tax payer dollars... and the government to protect them. They've got all the protection the need... the don't need your 10K.

[inuitgifts]

Well quite frankly, I am actually surprised Ornge actually feels as though they need to hand out a bond. The salary and benefits they offer alone are fare and enough to keep pilots around for at least 1 year if not 3 or 4.

But one thing that is quite unique with aviation compared to other professions, is the fact that training costs are extraordinarily high. 50k to get type rated on a Dash 8. I know so many people in my career, that have fled after a few months only.... after all that investment from the company.

So... maybe the finger pointing should be directed to these people instead of people like me. If more pilots would honor their commitments in the past, maybe aviation company's wouldn't have gotten into this state of paranoia that they find themselves in where they are forced to ask for bonds up front.