Any current info on perimeter?

[jpar84]

Too lazy to look it up again but I don't think you can teach multi fir with 250 hours... Even if you could, perimeter prides themselves on being professional and most instructors have well over 1000. Ramp is your best/only bet.

Thanks BEFAN5, for those who start on the ramp at 250tt, does perimeter do anything to help speed up the atpl or do you have to log 2500 hrs as an FO on the turboprops?

[cdnpilot77]

What do you mean by speed up the atpl?

[North Shore]

I've only observed P from across the ramp, and 2nd hand from friends who have worked there. I'd imagine that if you were to start on the ramp, you'll be pretty busy working, and might find it difficult to hold down a 2nd job instructing. Realistically, as an instructor, you'd want to get on somewhere that is busy, so you could gain experience, and get your 3? recommends in to become a class 3. That'll take you some time, even as a full-time instructor. Trying to wedge it in between ramp shifts isn't, I think, realistic.

Also, as is mentioned numerous times elsewhere on this forum, only instruct if you really want to do so. If you just want the hours to get on with your career, you'll be a poorer teacher than someone who is interested in passing on their knowledge.....

[jpar84]

What do you mean by speed up the atpl?

Well if you are to start as an F/O with 250tt, you would need to log 2500 to get the required 1500 for the atpl, which would probably take 3+ years right? I have no problem with that but I have heard some operators will help piots log some PIC hours on empty legs for example in order to help them get the required hours faster. Just wondering if Perimeter had anything like that in place.

thanks

[jpar84]

I've only observed P from across the ramp, and 2nd hand from friends who have worked there. I'd imagine that if you were to start on the ramp, you'll be pretty busy working, and might find it difficult to hold down a 2nd job instructing. Realistically, as an instructor, you'd want to get on somewhere that is busy, so you could gain experience, and get your 3? recommends in to become a class 3. That'll take you some time, even as a full-time instructor. Trying to wedge it in between ramp shifts isn't, I think, realistic.

Also, as is mentioned numerous times elsewhere on this forum, only instruct if you really want to do so. If you just want the hours to get on with your career, you'll be a poorer teacher than someone who is interested in passing on their knowledge.....

Yup definitely, I didn't actually mean instrucitng part-time while ramping at P, I meant either gaining some experience as an instructor elsewhere to bring myself up to their standards then applying as an instructor as opposed to ramping right away, either way I intend to give what ever work I do my full attention, no side-jobs. I do enjoy teaching and have done so in the past outside of aviation, instructing is definitely how I would like to start and the students would get my full attention. That said I will consider other paths such as working the ramp if they make sense as well. Either way Perimeter seems to be the type of professional well-run organization that I would like to get a start with.



Cheers

[fish4life]

What do you mean by speed up the atpl?

Well if you are to start as an F/O with 250tt, you would need to log 2500 to get the required 1500 for the atpl, which would probably take 3+ years right? I have no problem with that but I have heard some operators will help piots log some PIC hours on empty legs for example in order to help them get the required hours faster. Just wondering if Perimeter had anything like that in place.

thanks

You should really look into the aircraft types at Perimeter and you will see that they have metro 2's which don't require an ATPL to go Captain, that being said there is no PIC on empty legs or anything else. It sounds like you have a lot of research yet to do but keep in mind I don't think it has changed but pretty much everyone gets on there knowing someone in the company as there is stacks of resume's with internal references. Apply though can't hurt.

[jpar84]

What do you mean by speed up the atpl?

Well if you are to start as an F/O with 250tt, you would need to log 2500 to get the required 1500 for the atpl, which would probably take 3+ years right? I have no problem with that but I have heard some operators will help piots log some PIC hours on empty legs for example in order to help them get the required hours faster. Just wondering if Perimeter had anything like that in place.

thanks

You should really look into the aircraft types at Perimeter and you will see that they have metro 2's which don't require an ATPL to go Captain, that being said there is no PIC on empty legs or anything else. It sounds like you have a lot of research yet to do but keep in mind I don't think it has changed but pretty much everyone gets on there knowing someone in the company as there is stacks of resume's with internal references. Apply though can't hurt.

Yup thats true, thanks!

[ZBBYLW]

As others had mentioned 1000TT and a class 3 instructor ratings are the bare minimum to get on with the school. While some people get on with that amount of hours - more people are at least several hundred above the minimums.

Anyhow as far as Perimeter works if you really want to work here you need to get a job within the company. It can be anything, ramp, reservations, dispatch etc.. When you are applying to become an F/O they require you to have all your stuff done (CPL, MIFR and if it's a Metro 3 spot an IATRA and obviously 250TT). Using your date of hire as a reference they will let the more senior ramp guys in on the ground school. Once your number comes up for training you will do an evaluation process (Sim Eval). If you pass all this you will be slotted in for training. Due the the seniority of the DH8 this is not an entry level position.

Perimeter has Metro 2's and 3's, Beech 99s, DH8-100s and the 2 Barons and 3 Travel Airs. Once an F/O if you do not have the PIC time for your ATPL's pilots usually bid on either the Metro 2 Beech 99 or the Bag Runs and get their PIC that way.

Perimeter is a great company to work for in my opinion and if you are serious about putting in time on the ramp with your instructor rating you should try and get a job here.

[jpar84]

As others had mentioned 1000TT and a class 3 instructor ratings are the bare minimum to get on with the school. While some people get on with that amount of hours - more people are at least several hundred above the minimums.

Anyhow as far as Perimeter works if you really want to work here you need to get a job within the company. It can be anything, ramp, reservations, dispatch etc.. When you are applying to become an F/O they require you to have all your stuff done (CPL, MIFR and if it's a Metro 3 spot an IATRA and obviously 250TT). Using your date of hire as a reference they will let the more senior ramp guys in on the ground school. Once your number comes up for training you will do an evaluation process (Sim Eval). If you pass all this you will be slotted in for training. Due the the seniority of the DH8 this is not an entry level position.

Perimeter has Metro 2's and 3's, Beech 99s, DH8-100s and the 2 Barons and 3 Travel Airs. Once an F/O if you do not have the PIC time for your ATPL's pilots usually bid on either the Metro 2 Beech 99 or the Bag Runs and get their PIC that way.

Perimeter is a great company to work for in my opinion and if you are serious about putting in time on the ramp with your instructor rating you should try and get a job here.

Great thanks ZBBYLW, I will definitely be applying once I get the IATRA done.

cheers

[BEFAN5]

Or you could apply now. The ramp manager doesn't care if you have an IATRA

[jpar84]

Or you could apply now. The ramp manager doesn't care if you have an IATRA

Yes thats a good point


cheers

[Flygal]

Or you could apply now. The ramp manager doesn't care if you have an IATRA

I will throw my opinion in the ring, but the others have pretty much touched on the issues I wanted to.

-As a Class 4 you won't get a job Multi-IFR instructing. Working full time ramp and part time instructing will get old pretty fast too. The flight schools around YAV won't even hire a part timer last time I checked. Even trying to get a full time job with them would be hard, most of them hire their own grads anyways.

-Apply tomorrow for any job at Perimeter.
a) You'll make more money on the ground then you will instructing.
b) If you write you IATRA you're marketable on not only the metro 2/beech 99, but also the metro 3.
c) The experience you will gain just being around the planes, crews and operation will be invaluable.

-You have a choice to either take the instructing route or the Perimeter route. I would say take the P route.
If you instruct while climbing the ladder of hours and poverty, you will eventually get hired as a F/O on a twin turbine in some random place you've only heard about on avcanada. That's the best case scenario, you might end up on a single or a single turbine if you are desperate. All the while you'll be making next to no money living somewhere you probably hate working two weeks on, one week off.
Or you could:
Work the ground at Perimeter in one of a variety of different departments. Yes Winnipeg winters are cold and the ramp can be miserable when it's -30c outside, but you will be making a decent wage and a means to an end. You will work the ground for a MAX of two years. Having the IATRA will help things move quicker, because they will go down the "ground" seniority list until they hit someone who has their IATRA for the metro 3 spots. Lots of guys do not have the hours or exam completed, so this will work in your benefit.

This is just my opinion. I'm not trashing instructors, in fact I have a lot of respect for them. All I am saying is take a look at your options. It always surprises me how many people are so quick to dismiss Perimeter as a starting place. I have yet to find a better starting option then Perimeter.

[iamnomaverick]

Listen to flygal, she knows what she is talking about... I took her advise (and other helpful people on here) a little over 6 months ago and moved to the peg to work for Perimeter, best decision ever.... Good company, great people, reasonable and friendly management and a positive environment. I don't think there is a better place to start a career to be honest.

[jpar84]

Hey guys thanks for all the help. Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting that I would get a ramp position at Perimeter and try to instruct elsewhere on the side. Whichever path I take I intend to give it my full commitment. I thought I had read somewhere that some instructors at Perimeter also did shifts on the ramp so that is what I was asking about, but I can tell that is not the case. So I think I will take everyone's advice and apply now at perimeter for the ramp and keep looking for instructing jobs in the meantime. Then if I do get chosen I suppose where I end up will depend on my experience at the time, if i am still relatively low time then ramp or reservations it will be but if its a year or two down the road and I have 1000TT+ with some ifr instructing under my belt then maybe I can qualify as an instructor. This is what I am thinking anyway.

Is it really next to impossible to get an interview without reccommend though, because I don't know anybody there.

Thanks everyone
cheers

[jpar84]

Or you could apply now. The ramp manager doesn't care if you have an IATRA

I will throw my opinion in the ring, but the others have pretty much touched on the issues I wanted to.

-As a Class 4 you won't get a job Multi-IFR instructing. Working full time ramp and part time instructing will get old pretty fast too. The flight schools around YAV won't even hire a part timer last time I checked. Even trying to get a full time job with them would be hard, most of them hire their own grads anyways.

-Apply tomorrow for any job at Perimeter.
a) You'll make more money on the ground then you will instructing.
b) If you write you IATRA you're marketable on not only the metro 2/beech 99, but also the metro 3.
c) The experience you will gain just being around the planes, crews and operation will be invaluable.

-You have a choice to either take the instructing route or the Perimeter route. I would say take the P route.
If you instruct while climbing the ladder of hours and poverty, you will eventually get hired as a F/O on a twin turbine in some random place you've only heard about on avcanada. That's the best case scenario, you might end up on a single or a single turbine if you are desperate. All the while you'll be making next to no money living somewhere you probably hate working two weeks on, one week off.
Or you could:
Work the ground at Perimeter in one of a variety of different departments. Yes Winnipeg winters are cold and the ramp can be miserable when it's -30c outside, but you will be making a decent wage and a means to an end. You will work the ground for a MAX of two years. Having the IATRA will help things move quicker, because they will go down the "ground" seniority list until they hit someone who has their IATRA for the metro 3 spots. Lots of guys do not have the hours or exam completed, so this will work in your benefit.

This is just my opinion. I'm not trashing instructors, in fact I have a lot of respect for them. All I am saying is take a look at your options. It always surprises me how many people are so quick to dismiss Perimeter as a starting place. I have yet to find a better starting option then Perimeter.

Thanks Flygal, the perimeter path makes sense to me, I defintely agree with you, hard to believe so many dismiss it.

cheers to a great post!

[goleafsgo]

just sent my stuff in, if there's no job posted is there still a chance they'd give me a call?

[jpar84]

just sent my stuff in, if there's no job posted is there still a chance they'd give me a call?

Not if you're a leafs fan

[goleafsgo]

just sent my stuff in, if there's no job posted is there still a chance they'd give me a call?

Not if you're a leafs fan

Jets are my third team after calgary lol

[rjonno]

Just to reiterate what has already been said, If you are applying at Perimeter for a job on the ground, do your best to apply for the job you have applied for. That is to say, don't go in to your ramp interview rambling on about how great a pilot you'll be one day - show them what kind of ramp employee you can be. Once you are in and have learned the ramp/cargo/reservations for a few months then start thinking about the pilot hiring list.

I can confirm pretty well all the positive stuff being said about Perimeter in this thread - as far as entry level jobs go, its hard to beat flying a 16000lb lawndart with 250tt.

[rocco1]

there is not any entry level direct 250 tt at perimeter as most of everybody said. I was an instructor on a single I`ve been an instructor on the twin at perimeter. But if I have to make a suggestion is go the ramp...it is faster career then be an instructor. Plus, you dont need any raccomandetion to get jobs in the ramp.. only willing to work hard on the winter cold. good luck