Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

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ehbuddy
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Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by ehbuddy »

It looks interesting. Where in Africa would you be based? Any info appreciated on these positions......pay, living conditions etc.

Thanks
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flyinggreasemonkey
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by flyinggreasemonkey »

And the auction for this job starts at $5,000! 5! 5! Let me hear 7...7...We have 7! Can I get 9? 9 thousand? 9! Give me 15...15...15...come on folks you'll be a PILOT with this job! We have 15!...Can I hear 17? 17? 17? 15 thousand once! 15 thousand twice! SOLD to the dumbass with the big watch and sunglasses.
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ehbuddy
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by ehbuddy »

Not that great eh??
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by AMM »

flyinggreasemonkey wrote:And the auction for this job starts at $5,000! 5! 5! Let me hear 7...7...We have 7! Can I get 9? 9 thousand? 9! Give me 15...15...15...come on folks you'll be a PILOT with this job! We have 15!...Can I hear 17? 17? 17? 15 thousand once! 15 thousand twice! SOLD to the dumbass with the big watch and sunglasses.
Yeah dude, some people have more money then you. Deal with it. Wherever you consider the initial investment in this industry to end is completely arbitrary.
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by KK7 »

flyinggreasemonkey wrote:And the auction for this job starts at $5,000! 5! 5! Let me hear 7...7...We have 7! Can I get 9? 9 thousand? 9! Give me 15...15...15...come on folks you'll be a PILOT with this job! We have 15!...Can I hear 17? 17? 17? 15 thousand once! 15 thousand twice! SOLD to the dumbass with the big watch and sunglasses.
I suspect you have no real useful information to contribute since your information is quite dated. It's called a training bond and about half the companies in this industry use them. You're not paying money to the company, you're not paying for training.
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by av8tor_assrope »

I have a few friends that fly for VAL. 1 on the Dash and 1 on the RJ. Use to be 15k up front. Stay a year you get it back. Rotation is 2 on 2 off or you can opt for 2 on 1 off. My buddies generally describe the living conditions in country as mini resorts....in the middle of the ghetto. Upgrades happen at 3000 hrs and 500 on type to satisfy UN contracts. Pay for FO if I remember correctly is around 50-55 ish for doing 2 on 2 off. Captain 80-100 ish. Afgan contract pays close to double I believe. I don't work for VAL. This is second hand info.

Good Luck
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by WestCoastPilot »

av8tor_assrope wrote:Upgrades happen at 3000 hrs and 500 on type to satisfy UN contracts. Pay for FO if I remember correctly is around 50-55 ish for doing 2 on 2 off. Captain 80-100 ish. Afgan contract pays close to double I believe. I don't work for VAL. This is second hand info.

Good Luck
Rope
FO pay nowhere near that level. I interviewed there recently for an FO position. Was given a copy of the FO payscale, which worked out to be ~ $36k/yr on a 2 on 2 off schedule. Interestingly enough, Voyageur payscale math INCLUDED perdiem in your annual salary. So factoring perdiem into your pay, you'd make $36k/yr. I thought the basic definition of perdiem was that it was a living allowance. Really interesting how they stretched it to put it "into" your pay. I'm scared at how low pay would be if perdiem WAS NOT included.
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raven54
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by raven54 »

Ahh, let the VAL flaming begin! It's been up a week with 3600' ish views...weird. Anywho, the stated pay for FO is base salary, not included there is the overseas rate, which is significantly more than the domestic rate. I've been VERY pleased with this gig, is it perfect? Hells no, show me a company that is.
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KK7
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by KK7 »

I don't like giving away my history, but I'm tired of the misinformation passed on here. I was very cautious when starting at VAL based on what I read on here, and all the bad info on here was quickly proven wrong. Like any company, take promises with a grain of salt, and look out for yourself first when it comes to career moves in the company.

I'll aslo say it's a decent place to work. People who flame the company I think are thinking of old days before there was a mass exodus. These days things are much better. There is a $15 000 one year bond non pro-rated, I didn't like it, but it seems to be becoming standard. It's far better than paying for your job like some other companies of some of VAL's competitors.

Base salary for FOs $36K, Captains $55K, but this only applies for domestic work which is practically non-existant. Gross after overseas bonuses is in the range of ~$50K for FO, ~$90K for Captains. This doesn't include per diem which is $50USD, and the overseas tax credit if working on a UN contract which is approx. 80% of federal tax back, and some provincial depending on which province you live in. This is all for the UN contracts which is the bulk of the work.

Accommodations are what I would consider slightly better than average as a minimum, and some bases are quite extravagant. Planes are in great shape, very safe operation. Most of the crews working here are really great people and depending on which plane you're on are very easy to live with. I only know of the 2 month on 2 month off schedule now, I think they wanted to phase out the other rotation schedules. The above salaries are based on the 2 on/2 off rotation.

Like any operator, they do have their frustrations, but they are no different than anyone else that I've worked with overseas. The frustrations are basically the name of the game for overseas work IMO. I have to admit, not really sure why they are advertising for pilots now, but we're not usually told what's going on in the big picture until things have already started, so maybe there's something coming down the pipe we don't know. I would suggest asking lots of questions about what work there is coming up if you get called in for an interview.

Please don't PM me for info, I won't share with one person what I wouldn't share with everyone on here.
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by LegoMan »

I dont think people understand why VAL charges a bond. How many pilots do you think would be jumping ship after the first rotation. Living & flying in that part of the world is not for everyone especially someone who has a family. The bond is there to protect the company from someone who doesn't know what they want or is just looking at getting a free type rating and then saying "I tried, its not for me." If you dont have the money you are dumb for taking out a loan and paying for a job. However if money is plentiful and you dont care, then do what you want.
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50'minimums
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by 50'minimums »

So is VAL just asking you to sign a bond now, or is it still cash up front with it being paid back after 1 year of service?
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by Captain Kangaroo »

KK7 wrote:I don't like giving away my history, but I'm tired of the misinformation passed on here. I was very cautious when starting at VAL based on what I read on here, and all the bad info on here was quickly proven wrong. Like any company, take promises with a grain of salt, and look out for yourself first when it comes to career moves in the company.

I'll aslo say it's a decent place to work. People who flame the company I think are thinking of old days before there was a mass exodus. These days things are much better. There is a $15 000 one year bond non pro-rated, I didn't like it, but it seems to be becoming standard. It's far better than paying for your job like some other companies of some of VAL's competitors.

Base salary for FOs $36K, Captains $55K, but this only applies for domestic work which is practically non-existant. Gross after overseas bonuses is in the range of ~$50K for FO, ~$90K for Captains. This doesn't include per diem which is $50USD, and the overseas tax credit if working on a UN contract which is approx. 80% of federal tax back, and some provincial depending on which province you live in. This is all for the UN contracts which is the bulk of the work.

Accommodations are what I would consider slightly better than average as a minimum, and some bases are quite extravagant. Planes are in great shape, very safe operation. Most of the crews working here are really great people and depending on which plane you're on are very easy to live with. I only know of the 2 month on 2 month off schedule now, I think they wanted to phase out the other rotation schedules. The above salaries are based on the 2 on/2 off rotation.

Like any operator, they do have their frustrations, but they are no different than anyone else that I've worked with overseas. The frustrations are basically the name of the game for overseas work IMO. I have to admit, not really sure why they are advertising for pilots now, but we're not usually told what's going on in the big picture until things have already started, so maybe there's something coming down the pipe we don't know. I would suggest asking lots of questions about what work there is coming up if you get called in for an interview.

Please don't PM me for info, I won't share with one person what I wouldn't share with everyone on here.
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KK7
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by KK7 »

Just a reminder, please DO NOT PM me for information. I don't have the time to respond to people individually, and it is not fair to give information only to one person. I don't know any of you personally, so I'm only going to give information that I would give publicly to everyone.

With regards to the bond. I have to agree, it's not the most favourable method, but I think in the end it is fair. I think the reason for the bond is that a PPC on a DASH-7, DASH-8 and CRJ is very expensive, and as it was pointed out, they only want people who know what they are getting themselves into. Overseas work is great and amazing IMO, but it is not for everyone. On top of this, PPCs on DASH-8s and CRJs is very valuable in the industry, and we can blame our fellow pilots for turning and burning in the past with these PPCs.

The problem with "just signing a bond" or signing a promissory note is that there is no real way for a company to get its money should you not honour the contract. For one, in Canada nobody can sue someone for money they don't have, and we're pilots - we don't have money. Secondly, the legality of such a contract is somewhat dubious. Instead, having the actual cash sit somewhere with someone in trust means that they can legally acquire the money should the pilot not honour the contract.

Here is how the bond works, at least when I started at VAL.
You sign an employment contract that states you will remain with VAL for one year from the date of completion of your training. Should you leave before one year, be fired for disciplinary action VAL has the right to the money from this bond. Should you be let go for reasons out of your control, then you get your money back (however they will make use of their investment, and have been known to put people to good use). If you have a problem with the employment contract, don't sign it, and request to add clauses to it to your liking. Like I said before, we have to look after ourselves.

You can either provide $15 000 or get a $15 000 loan from the bank, however THIS IS NOT PAID TO VOYAGEUR. This is kept in a jointly held GIC at the bank, in trust, and the bank is provided the contract. The bank plays the neutral third party and ensures that the contract is honoured. If the company were to go tits up, the company is not holding the money and is not part of their assets to creditors since the bank would be bound to follow the contract and award the money back to the pilot. If you get a loan, you pay the interest on the loan for the one year of the bond, but this gets paid back to you from the company as an expense minus the interest you collected from the GIC. If it is your money, you also collect the interest from the GIC.

You're not paying for anything, and the company never touches the money. It is held in trust, and is awarded based on a the contract both the company and the pilot sign.

I was skeptical at first because it's dealing with an actual amount of cash, but from the company's perspective it is the guarantee that you will honour the contract that you enter in with them. It is what it is, and if you don't like it, then simply stay away. But besides this they are a decent operator and company to work for. There are better companies out there, but there are far worse ones too. In the end I don't regret it.
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dab81
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by dab81 »

Thanks for the post KK7. I'm wondering about the time requirements, namely for upgrade. The website mentions 500 multi-pic for the Dash, that pretty firm? (would 400ish suffice on over12500 lbs?) Be no good going somewhere and being unable to move up...
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by KK7 »

I don't know the nitty gritty details for time required to upgrade, it seems to be on a case by case basis and on a basis of need and merit. However, the company's main customer requires Captains to have 3000 hours TT, and VAL is very very firm on this.
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damfou
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by damfou »

Hello,
International work really interest me so I have a few questions concerning VAL and their UN contracts...
If anyone could answer any of the following questions, I would really appreciate!
1- Do you think I have a chance, I'm currently King Air captain 2000h, 250h multi pic?
2- Do they give the choice of aircraft (Dash 7/8/CRJ) ?
3- During a rotation, what does a typical day looks like?
4- For positioning flights, can I travel from anywhere or VAL provides flights to africa from canadian airports only?
5- Anyone to contact to show my interest? HR? Chief pilot? DFO?
6- Any chance to get a captain upgrade within 1-2 years?
7- Any other advises?

Thanks!
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dab81
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by dab81 »

Great to get some solid info, thanks.
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KK7
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by KK7 »

damfou wrote:Hello,
International work really interest me so I have a few questions concerning VAL and their UN contracts...
If anyone could answer any of the following questions, I would really appreciate!
1- Do you think I have a chance, I'm currently King Air captain 2000h, 250h multi pic?
2- Do they give the choice of aircraft (Dash 7/8/CRJ) ?
3- During a rotation, what does a typical day looks like?
4- For positioning flights, can I travel from anywhere or VAL provides flights to africa from canadian airports only?
5- Anyone to contact to show my interest? HR? Chief pilot? DFO?
6- Any chance to get a captain upgrade within 1-2 years?
7- Any other advises?
Working overseas on rotation is a great experience, but is not for everyone. You must be able to be away from home with sometimes limited communication for 2 months. Although at VAL's bases the internet is good for Skype calls and you can call for a reasonable price on cell phone, sometimes time zone differences and busy schedules interfere with the ability to make regular communication. For me I stick to emails mainly and the occasional video chat to get by.

1/ It doesn't hurt to put your resume in. They have taken a wide variety of applicants with varying experience. I think it mainly depends on who is available at the time.
2/ The aircraft is not your choice.
3/ A typical day largely depends on the base you're at. In general you don't fly everyday, some bases are busy flying 5-6 days a week, but the norm seems to sit more around 3 days a week on average, and sometimes as little as once a week. But you get paid regardless so the amount of flying has no bearing on pay. You get up in the morning, make breakfast, drivers take you to airport, you prep the aircraft, file flight plan, fly to a variety of locations, some major airports, some small dirt strips, come back home, make supper or go out for supper then have a few beers on the patio then go to sleep. If you're off, you go shopping, watch movies, maybe go to the beach but usually you're on call and can't go that far since you have to be ready for a 1 hour call out.
4/ I think they prefer people to live in Canada, but there are many who live elsewhere like the Caribbean. They pay for your travel starting from a major airport, so you are responsible for getting yourself to your "base" airport.
5/ All resumes go through HR, follow instructions in the job ad. The management doesn't have time to deal with individual phone calls unless you know them personally.
6/ Upgrades depend mainly on need and your performance, and of course meeting the customer's minimums.
7/ It never hurts to apply, and if called in for interview (which they do in North Bay and Toronto, sometimes other locations too) ask lots of questions.
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by Cat Driver »

Should you leave before one year, be fired for disciplinary action VAL has the right to the money from this bond.
If you get fired, who determines " For just cause "
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by ZBBYLW »

Who do you guys get J/S agreements with?
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Johnny#5
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by Johnny#5 »

CIBC
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KK7
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by KK7 »

Cat Driver wrote:
Should you leave before one year, be fired for disciplinary action VAL has the right to the money from this bond.
If you get fired, who determines " For just cause "
Just cause is a legal term and is determined in the Canada Labour Code. I suspect though that you're trying to stir something here, and I get what you're saying, but this is the wrong place for it IMO. This thread is about information for the job posting.
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dab81
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by dab81 »

Couple more questions:

How many hours approx a year/or rotation does a guy fly overseas?

Do the accomodations have fitness facilities/workout gym?

Thanks again
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by raven54 »

The hours/year vary depending on type/mission/base. I've done about 200-250 per year. The fitness facilities also vary location dependant. Some bases have gyms/tennis court/pool etc at the apartment complex, others don't. Most will have gyms close by though for a reasonable rate.
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Re: Flight Crew Positions Voyageur

Post by RVR6000 »

What happens to the bond if you are laid-off due to Voyageur losing a contract.
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