Which will get me a better job?

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seanlarose
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Which will get me a better job?

Post by seanlarose » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:00 am

Hey all. I have a questions for any chief pilots, ops managers, or others involved in the hiring of newer pilots. Let me start by giving you a little background about myself.

I've been working for a very small (read: one C182) 702 operation as the maintenance manager for the last 18 months. I have been with the company since its' inception, and was a big part of getting the MSA and MCM approved. In the last month, I have become the operations manager as well. As an aside, I also have my AME technical schooling (no apprenticeship hours yet). I recently began down the road to my CPL, and I have 2 options in front of me right now. I have been accepted to the Flight Management program at ConCollege in Thunder Bay with which I'm sure you're familiar. The ConCollege program seems a lot cheaper than going it alone initially, but due to the fact that you're not really able to work during the program, they're about equal in cost for me. The obvious con to taking the program is that I would not be able to remain on as PRM/OM for the 2 years I'd be required to be away from home.

So my question is this: Given two applicants with similar hours (low time with a fresh CPL), one with 4 years PRM experience and 2.5 years OM experience; the other with 2 years PRM experience (which would now be 2-3 years ago) and a ConCollege Flight Management diploma, who would you be more likely to hire? If you don't mind, could you also state what kind of operator you do the hiring for? Names not necessary, but a general idea of the scale of operation would be awesome.

Thanks ladies and gents, I'm sure this will be a big help in making my decision.
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bbb
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Re: Which will get me a better job?

Post by bbb » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:24 am

How the hay did you get approved to hold the Ops Manager position? I can kinda see the Maintenance Manager, but the Regs are pretty clear, from 722.07:

(2) Qualifications and Responsibilities of Operations Personnel

(a) Operations Manager

(i) Qualifications

(A) hold or have held the appropriate licence and ratings for which a pilot-in-command is required to hold for one of the aircraft operated by the air operator or have acquired not less than 2 years related flight operations experience with an air operator of a commercial air service or equivalent military experience; and
(amended 2004/12/01; previous version)

(B) have demonstrated to the air operator knowledge with respect to the content of the operations manual, Air Operator Certificate and Operations Specifications and the provisions of the regulations and standards necessary to carry out the duties and responsibilities to ensure safety.

Italics in (A) mine.... if you set up everything for them you haven't worked for 2yrs for an air operator acquiring the flight operations experience required, and you don't hold the appropriate license (no rating required obviously for a C182) to operate the aircraft...... wow.

I really am finding it unbelievable how vastly different TC is in their dealings with different people/companies......
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seanlarose
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Re: Which will get me a better job?

Post by seanlarose » Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:37 pm

My experience previous to working for this specific company is what gave me the required flight operations experience.
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iflyforpie
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Re: Which will get me a better job?

Post by iflyforpie » Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:15 pm

seanlarose wrote:I recently began down the road to my CPL.......

(2) Qualifications and Responsibilities of Operations Personnel

(a) Operations Manager

(i) Qualifications

(A) hold or have held the appropriate licence and ratings for which a pilot-in-command is required to hold for one of the aircraft operated by the air operator or have acquired not less than 2 years related flight operations experience with an air operator of a commercial air service or equivalent military experience; and......
seanlarose wrote:My experience previous to working for this specific company is what gave me the required flight operations experience.

:smt017


Without getting too far off topic, for low time pilots, none of your 'managerial experience' is crucial, nor does it matter what course you take. The best investment a new CPL can make is gaining PIC in whatever form you can get it. A guy who goes to a mom-and-pop school and gets done a year earlier is going to be in a better position a couple years down the road than somebody who spend a lot of money gaining an associate degree that will not mean much when slinging bags and washing out moose guts.

At our operation, your maintenance knowledge would get you further, and we could probably get lots of your logbook signed off over a season. An AME license has allowed me to make a decent living as a commercial pilot from day one.
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Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?

seanlarose
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Re: Which will get me a better job?

Post by seanlarose » Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:44 pm

Thanks man, that's what I was looking for. Everyone else of the same opinion?
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flt driver
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Re: Which will get me a better job?

Post by flt driver » Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:16 am

Depends what your long term goal is. If flying a cattle truck for a major carrier is your plan, then you may need a college or university degree in anything, even unrelated to aviation to become a candidate down the road. If bush or charter work is your idea, then I would suggest going with the private flight school, get your CPL in less than half the time, get back to work ahead of the college crowd, and spend about the same money either way. Keep in mind that if you go with the private route, you're not paying for a dorm room or appartment for 2-3 years. Your current work experience will put you ahead of most as it is with fresh CPL's. The college education is fine, but besides the actual flight training, how relevant is it in bush aviation?? Like I said, it depends on your long term goals. Neither option is bad, or necessarily better or worse than the other, just depends on what you want to do.
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20DMEYYZ
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Re: Which will get me a better job?

Post by 20DMEYYZ » Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:26 pm

if you ever wanted to go the instructing route most FTU's would rather have someone from their school than a confedy grad so that's something to keep in mind if your not planning to spend time on the dock/ramp . if your young , the con-college program is a great experience and add's value and has a great facility at yqt . but i also believe doing your license in your own tailored timeframe is an added freedom that allow's you to adjust your training cadence to the percieved hiring trend's which can be advantageous over the college cirriculum .
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seanlarose
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Re: Which will get me a better job?

Post by seanlarose » Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:47 pm

Excellent, thanks for the insight guys. My eventual goal is more bush/specialty than airline, and I really hear what you're saying about staying known at the local club. And the living away from home is what's making the costs prettymuch equal between the two. Thanks again.
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PA-18
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Re: Which will get me a better job?

Post by PA-18 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:55 pm

I would suggest the Confed program, it is a bush oriented program that has more to offer then most schools. During your training you'll get your 25 hrs on floats as well as a ski checkout on a 180. If you decide to further your career into airlines you'll have the required education. Many bush operators recognize the confed program. If you can afford to take time from work I would reccomend it over a private flying club.
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seanlarose
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Re: Which will get me a better job?

Post by seanlarose » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:30 am

I originally had this in the general comments forum but it appears to have been moved. Anyone over here have any opinions?
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Northern Skies
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Re: Which will get me a better job?

Post by Northern Skies » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:30 am

If hiring someone for an entry-level job, I would cut through all of the crap and see if he can think and fit in with the operation. I would pick the most switched-on dude whether or not it coincides with qualifications such as degrees, etc.

The easier it is to see what he is really like behind all of the marketing, the easier it would be to hire him.
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