From instructing to Georgian

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crj-erj
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From instructing to Georgian

Post by crj-erj »

Hey folks,
I have been hearing from other forum posts that air georgian is not a bad place to build some quality time, in preperation for the airlines. I was wondering if you guys have heard of any instructors going straight from instructing to air georgian, or is there usually another step in between?

- From what i have gathered, their mins are 2000 TT is that right. Also, do they have minimum requirements on mulit or PIC time?

Thanks for your time
Justin
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L.T.O.M.
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by L.T.O.M. »

An instructor left my FTU last summer for Georgian. From what I heard, he had about 1500 TT and the IATRA written. Another instructor from the same school left for there shortly after with around 2000 TT, including 500 MPIC. Good place to build time, from what I hear.
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x15
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by x15 »

Lots of instructors working at ggn now. Used to be they would not take anyone that did not have operational time. However as demand for those with operational experience has gone up recently and supply has gone down; ggn has relaxed its hiring requirements and is taking people with as little as 1200 hours and their atpl written or iatra.

GGN will definitely be a place to build time quickly.
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crj-erj
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by crj-erj »

x15 wrote:Lots of instructors working at ggn now.
thanks for the post. is there many who go straight from instructing to georgian, or would they usually have to get a small charter job or something to build multi time in between the two?
thanks again - Justin
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CRJ-705
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by CRJ-705 »

did instructors going to georgian instruct on a multi or would georgian hire guys with all single engine instructing time?
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trey kule
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by trey kule »

I have been hearing from other forum posts that air georgian is not a bad place to build some quality time, in preperation for the airlines
Good place to build time, from what I hear.
GGN will definitely be a place to build time quickly
These kind of comments must make the folks at Georgian feel all warm and fuzzy, and just want to pull out the old checkbook and pay for training...

Are there any new pilots out there that just want to fly and do a good job without considering their employer simply as a career step to put ink in the logbook so they can move on.?
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thegrimm
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by thegrimm »

I went straight to Georgian from instructing. I had just over 1500TT, 300 or so multi, and my ATPL. Not sure what they are looking for now but I do know they now have new hiring practices similar to Air Canada with a cognitive and psych test.
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by BTyyj »

trey kule wrote:Are there any new pilots out there that just want to fly and do a good job without considering their employer simply as a career step to put ink in the logbook so they can move on.?
It's probably this way because of the pay rates. F/Os start at $24 000 with captains topping off at less than $60 000. Georgian probably wants it this way though - no expensive Pilots high on the pay scale. I would bet most move to the majors after 2-3 years in the left seat.
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Cat Driver
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by Cat Driver »

Are there any new pilots out there that just want to fly and do a good job without considering their employer simply as a career step to put ink in the logbook so they can move on.?
There seems to be less and less young pilots that are willing to learn the flying business in anything except jets.

A lot of owners of smaller airplanes have learned that training them can be costly without bonds.

The wages just go down and down because there are so many new pilots who are willing to work for slave wages, and as they move up to bigger airplanes they will take another cut to get closer to the " Big Iron " .

Once they make the big iron they find out just how little difference there is in flying them.

But....they get to drag their rolly icons through the terminals dressed in a nice unifrom with gold bars on it......." Aircraft bling. " Finally they are part of the herd of tens of thousands of other big iron drivers outq there.
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KK7
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by KK7 »

It's a question of which came first, the chicken or the egg?

True that many young pilots see nothing but making it to the big iron, and all those below AC or WJ are merely stepping stones for building time.

But the flip side is how attractive is it to stay at the lower tier operations? I know many who do settle in for the long term, but some pass through. Who can blame them for low pay, poor scheduling and working conditions, with many upper tier operators demanding that experience?

I can attest that putting down roots in the "lower tiers" can certainly pay off. I've found a good spot where I am happy, making good money, good schedule and so on, and *gasp* I'm flying turboprops. I may never fly a jet and I'm okay with that, nothing beats bombing around in a heavy turbo prop at 400 feet AGL all day, and only needing to work half the year!
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CS01
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by CS01 »

Frosty wrote:
trey kule wrote:Are there any new pilots out there that just want to fly and do a good job without considering their employer simply as a career step to put ink in the logbook so they can move on.?
It's probably this way because of the pay rates. F/Os start at $24 000 with captains topping off at less than $60 000. Georgian probably wants it this way though - no expensive Pilots high on the pay scale. I would bet most move to the majors after 2-3 years in the left seat.
Where'd you get those numbers from? There's another GGN thread with much more current info. As for going to the airlines- 30 went to Air Canada in 2011 (out of about 115 pilots). Westjet takes one every couple months. Air Canada is taking Georgian pilots before they're even done their upgrade to captain. There are quite a few that want to remain here, mostly from the YHZ and YYC bases, however.
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DanWEC
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by DanWEC »

A previous instructor of mine went straight in. No mpic to speak of. He was over 30, and I believe was ATC for a few years before going pilot side.
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single_swine_herder
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by single_swine_herder »

About 3 or 4 decades ago, most of the pilots I knew, (with the exception of a few who enjoyed the bush due to the great outdoors aspect of it,) were also chasing airlines or big iron.

So I doubt this is some new gene that has appeared in pilot DNA in the last 10 years.
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dazednconfused
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by dazednconfused »

Does Georgian have a ramp/dispatch to FO opportunity like CMA or Perimeter would offer?
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Krimson
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by Krimson »

dazednconfused wrote:Does Georgian have a ramp/dispatch to FO opportunity like CMA or Perimeter would offer?
No. The only way in other than having the hours they are looking for is their mentor program. They take guys from Seneca College for this and are backed up for at least a year since all their senior captains are leaving.
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flying4dollars
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by flying4dollars »

Frosty wrote:
trey kule wrote:Are there any new pilots out there that just want to fly and do a good job without considering their employer simply as a career step to put ink in the logbook so they can move on.?
It's probably this way because of the pay rates. F/Os start at $24 000 with captains topping off at less than $60 000. Georgian probably wants it this way though - no expensive Pilots high on the pay scale. I would bet most move to the majors after 2-3 years in the left seat.

Incorrect. There is a payscale posted somewhere on the net. I can't remember where but it's pretty accurate.
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Magnetron
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by Magnetron »

Krimson wrote:
No. The only way in other than having the hours they are looking for is their mentor program. They take guys from Seneca College for this and are backed up for at least a year since all their senior captains are leaving.
Krimson is right. They do hire low time guys through the mentor program and I also know a few instructors who have also been recently hired with less than to around a year of instructing. However I'm not sure the accuracy of ONLY taking guys from Seneca College.
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by BTyyj »

flying4dollars wrote:Incorrect. There is a payscale posted somewhere on the net. I can't remember where but it's pretty accurate.
CS01 wrote:Where'd you get those numbers from? There's another GGN thread with much more current info.
I got the salary figures from two different sites:

- http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airl ... orgian.html
- http://..com/?page_id=547

If you guys have more current information, I urge you to email both of these sites and get them to update it.
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flying4dollars
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by flying4dollars »

Frosty wrote:
flying4dollars wrote:Incorrect. There is a payscale posted somewhere on the net. I can't remember where but it's pretty accurate.
CS01 wrote:Where'd you get those numbers from? There's another GGN thread with much more current info.
I got the salary figures from two different sites:

- http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airl ... orgian.html
- http://..com/?page_id=547

If you guys have more current information, I urge you to email both of these sites and get them to update it.

I'm not seeing a figure that shows the starting pay is at 24k for f/o's and less than 60k tops for Capts. Captains top above 60 and f/o's start at 27 or 28.
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CRJ-705
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by CRJ-705 »

did instructors leaving for georgian instruct on a multi or would georgian hire guys with all single engine instructing time?
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CS01
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by CS01 »

FO's start at 28 and change. The pay rates go up by a certain percentage every January and July iirc, as well as every year since your start date. Yes, the pay sucks, but it is pretty comparable, and there is no bond. I get about $600 a month in perdiems. Airline passes with AC and star alliance members, jumpseat with Westjet, porter, transat, etc.

As for instructors, they don't hire many, maybe one every gs if things haven't changed. Multi time doesn't seem to be a factor. Seems like most are from Seneca though. Internal recommends help quite a bit.
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Magnetron
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by Magnetron »

CRJ-705 wrote:did instructors leaving for georgian instruct on a multi or would georgian hire guys with all single engine instructing time?
I am most certain that the instructors that I know of going to ggn only had single engine instructing time. Although I wouldn't think anyone who is qualified and teaches multi, thus logging multi PIC, would go to ggn for FO position.
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HighT5
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by HighT5 »

Magnetron wrote:
... I wouldn't think anyone who is qualified and teaches multi, thus logging multi PIC, would go to ggn for FO position.
Logging PIC on a Seminole is better time than 1900 f/o?

Do general aviation multi instructors go direct captain on King Airs these days?
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Magnetron
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by Magnetron »

HighT5 wrote:
Logging PIC on a Seminole is better time than 1900 f/o?

Do general aviation multi instructors go direct captain on King Airs these days?
Who said it was a Seminole?
And no, I doubt it. My experience, the multi instructors I've had are old folks who have done far greater things and are now kicking it back with instructing.

But that's besides my point/opinion. To me and maybe others, multi PIC is multi PIC, if I could get it in a piston twin, so be it. If it's in a turbine, even better.
No offense meant to ggn but if it were a company with greater depth with regards to types of aircraft which I could eventually upgrade to by starting as an FO. Sure I'd go for it than always be instructing.

In any case, it's just my opinion. I just feel its a step backwards. Maybe you'd eventually go for an FO position after instructing, but with the multi PIC time, you have that extra advantage when it comes to upgrade time.
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HighT5
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by HighT5 »

I was using the Seminole as an example of light piston twin vs a 17,000lb turbine twin in a 704 operation.

Of course if the instructor is older and has already flown bigger and better and is instructing at the end of his career, then yes, why would he or she go f/o at GGN? That was a critical point you left out of your post.

But I'm still unsure of your point.."But that's besides my point/opinion. To me and maybe others, multi PIC is multi PIC, if I could get it in a piston twin, so be it. If it's in a turbine, even better."

Are AC, WJ, AT, SW, CJ, Jazz, Porter, SkyRegional taking piston-twin only guys now? NO instructor should stick to his Seminole teaching pic if working for a main canadian airline is his goal. And, you don't need any multi-pic time to upgrade to captain at a lot of companies. It's usually based on total time plus time on type. So that would not give you an extra advantage when it comes to upgrade time.

Companies like GGN wouldn't have to be considered a stepping stone if they paid better, had a pension, and offered similar lifestyles to 705 operators. But, understandably, that isn't always financially possible for smaller operators like them.
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