From instructing to Georgian

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Magnetron
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by Magnetron » Sun May 13, 2012 7:39 pm

To clarify my point, then, I meant more of the hours you can log. I've seen so many ads with 500 multi Pic as a requirement. I assumed that if you had that, you're golden. or at least shinier than the other candidates...but obviously it's not just that.
My comment also ties into GGN being what it is right now. Perhaps I meant it that GGN not being as glamorous as it COULD be right now, perhaps slugging it out instructing multi for some hours and getting a greater chance at a better operator might be worth it.
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BTyyj
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by BTyyj » Tue May 15, 2012 3:31 pm

flying4dollars wrote:I'm not seeing a figure that shows the starting pay is at 24k for f/o's and less than 60k tops for Capts. Captains top above 60 and f/o's start at 27 or 28.
My apologizes, you are correct. My point still remains the same though - the more experienced guys won't be staying around when there is better money offered elsewhere.
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Diadem
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by Diadem » Tue May 15, 2012 7:58 pm

Frosty wrote:My point still remains the same though - the more experienced guys won't be staying around when there is better money offered elsewhere.
That seems to be a major component of GGN's business model: rather than pay guys $100000/year and an exorbitant pension after they retire, don't bother trying to retain them. They have to pay for a PPC renewal annually anyway, so instead of higher wages they budget in the cost of an initial in place of a renewal every couple of years. The few thousand extra for the training is probably peanuts compared to what they would pay guys who'd been there for twenty years, and the pilots get to go fly shiny jets. Everybody wins. I mean, not the FOs making $28000/year, but FOs aren't really people anyway.
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Krimson
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by Krimson » Tue May 15, 2012 8:55 pm

Diadem wrote:The few thousand extra for the training is probably peanuts compared to what they would pay guys who'd been there for twenty years, and the pilots get to go fly shiny jets. Everybody wins. I mean, not the FOs making $28000/year, but FOs aren't really people anyway.
Everyone who is in it to make a buck wins. Everyone else looses. The potential of the company, the passengers, the pilots, all other (non-management) employees. And most of all, all of us. Not just the ones making $28,000/year; the rest of us making less than that working elsewhere, or making more than that but still underpaid for what we are doing. When one company is paying their pilots like garbage, the whole industry takes a hit. The average pay falls and other money hungry companies will follow suit. This is what happens when CEOs would like to line their own pockets instead of treat their staff well and advance the field where their money is coming from. Goes to the saying, everyone makes money off aviation except those of us in it - we love it too much.
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Cat Driver
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by Cat Driver » Wed May 16, 2012 12:37 pm

Goes to the saying, everyone makes money off aviation except those of us in it - we love it too much.
Exactly.

What I can not figure out is why you get paid anything, if missionary's are willing to work for nothing what can't pilots?
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by BTyyj » Wed May 16, 2012 1:45 pm

Cat Driver wrote: I can not figure out is why you get paid anything, if missionary's are willing to work for nothing what can't pilots?
That's because missionaries are provided with room and board :mrgreen:
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Diadem
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by Diadem » Wed May 16, 2012 2:04 pm

And hot topless native girls on tropical islands. Come to think of it, what the hell am I doing as a pilot?
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trey kule
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by trey kule » Wed May 16, 2012 6:14 pm

Well Cat, those that take the missionary position tend to get screwed :smt040

I am surprised a bit at exactly what FO's think they are worth. On the one hand they admit they dont have experience, from which one might conclude that they either are unfit to fly this type of aircraft at this point, or will take more training, and put a heavier workload on the Captain/Instructor/Mentor....On the other hand they seem to feel they are worth far more, because I assume, they are licensed pilots...note, I did not say qualified.

I have made no bones about it in the past as to my feelings of the FO position being a training position...It really negates the whole crew concept. Kind of like logging FO time when you were a student pilot instead of dual.
And I think the FAA has also seen the light , and that TC soon will, after , of course, we have a few bump in, and some innocent people killed who thought they had a qualified crew up front.

So, if you are effectively a student pilot,,,$28k a year is not bad... If you had 1000 hours multi turbine PIC it would be a whole different story...And eventually you will see us get to that and the wages will rise..
In the meantime, companies that hire fresh new CPLs to save money are choosing the single pilot instructor Captain vs. and experienced crew....something the public should be made aware of if TC wont move on the issue.
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by 767 » Fri May 18, 2012 1:07 am

trey kule wrote:
Are there any new pilots out there that just want to fly and do a good job without considering their employer simply as a career step to put ink in the logbook so they can move on.?
At the interview I want to tell them the truth (commitment), but it seems like these days most companies expect to hear " yes, I will go to (major airline) if they call me tommrow" when asked that question. I dont think anyone is ready to believe when I say " I will stay with you for the next 2 years". :(
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by X-Savior » Fri May 18, 2012 2:27 pm

Air Georgian is now a 1 year bond required... due to the number of pilots that have been quickly moving up and on they need some sort of commitment. This bond is not a cash up front so it is not a big deal IMO.
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CS01
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by CS01 » Fri May 18, 2012 6:17 pm

There is no bond at Georgian. Not sure where you're coming up with that.
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by X-Savior » Sat May 19, 2012 11:00 pm

:)
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by CRJ-705 » Wed May 23, 2012 10:05 pm

so if its rare for georgian to hire instructors, what airlines do they normally hire guys from? Or what aircraft do they normally hire guys off of?
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by X-Savior » Fri May 25, 2012 3:39 pm

:)
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by single_swine_herder » Sun May 27, 2012 11:23 am

Oh wonderful ... so whoever joins as a Capt will have a whole batch of disgrutled F/Os that are out to stab him in the back for the slightest incorrect SOP call, or just generally be bitchy and snippy in the cockpit because they perceive that this new guy has "stolen their seat" to which they are rightfully entitled because they have a date of hire.

That happened to me when I was brought into an organization to shepherd the Single Otter around the sky for a regional carrier when they still operated floats. The guys thinking they were qualified had about 300 hours (or less) on the water after a basic 5 hour seaplane rating and a 1.1 start of season checkout for 2 years.

So I hope the new Captains get fitted for a bullet and knife-proof flack jacket to fly with. Oh ... and have somebody else go out and start your car in the morning to check for bombs connected to the ignition system.
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N8
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by N8 » Sun May 27, 2012 5:12 pm

We've had many DECs as Georgian.
I don't recall anyone being upset about it.
Even during the slow days upgrades happen pretty quick.
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by flying4dollars » Mon May 28, 2012 12:35 am

single_swine_herder wrote:Oh wonderful ... so whoever joins as a Capt will have a whole batch of disgrutled F/Os that are out to stab him in the back for the slightest incorrect SOP call, or just generally be bitchy and snippy in the cockpit because they perceive that this new guy has "stolen their seat" to which they are rightfully entitled because they have a date of hire.

That happened to me when I was brought into an organization to shepherd the Single Otter around the sky for a regional carrier when they still operated floats. The guys thinking they were qualified had about 300 hours (or less) on the water after a basic 5 hour seaplane rating and a 1.1 start of season checkout for 2 years.

So I hope the new Captains get fitted for a bullet and knife-proof flack jacket to fly with. Oh ... and have somebody else go out and start your car in the morning to check for bombs connected to the ignition system.
Yikes. Easy fella. I had no issues when I joined. Neither have the other new guys after me. It's not a matter of people having the time but are getting bumped because of DEC's. It's a matter of 1700 hour guys knowing they aren't at a level to occupy the left seat of a 1900. When our f/o's hit the requirements, they are scheduled for upgrade training. Still a fair but of attrition here. We've had several courses and have more on the way because of this.
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by X-Savior » Mon May 28, 2012 9:14 am

:)
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by single_swine_herder » Tue May 29, 2012 5:34 am

....good that you've got some reasonably balanced FOs then. Or at least ones that keep their mouths shut in public. All too often I see people that mistakenly think that because they have a date of hire, that they are entitled to the world.
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by CS01 » Tue May 29, 2012 3:47 pm

single_swine_herder wrote:....good that you've got some reasonably balanced FOs then. Or at least ones that keep their mouths shut in public. All too often I see people that mistakenly think that because they have a date of hire, that they are entitled to the world.
Everyone at Georgian knows very well how the upgrade process works (no surprises with outside hires). The hours are a hard requirement, and seniority has VERY little to do with it. You could be the most senior FO by 3 years, if you don't have the hours, you won't be upgraded. There is no PICUS at Georgian either.
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by X-Savior » Tue May 29, 2012 6:55 pm

:)
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by flying4dollars » Tue May 29, 2012 11:17 pm

X-Savior wrote:
X-Savior wrote:From what I understand the next Ground School is sched. for mid summer.

Does anyone know how long after Interview/Sim or before planned Ground School they do call backs for start dates? :D
Just curious if anyone has any info about the above? As we all know this limbo stage can be a little tough on the nerves. I was there Mid-May and was successful on the COMPASS aptitude test system they have implemented as well as the Interview and Sim Eval. I am just wondering now long now I should roughly be expecting someone to contact me?

Thanks for any info anyone can provide. :D

Can be anywhere from the next day to a couple weeks, tough to say. I think they are slowly catching up on hiring so they are scheduling current hires into training and slotting everyone into the sim. Once that batch is complete, calls will go out for future courses. Good luck
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by X-Savior » Wed May 30, 2012 4:31 pm

:)
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by CRJ-705 » Thu May 31, 2012 10:01 am

what airlines does georgian hire from?
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CS01
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Re: From instructing to Georgian

Post by CS01 » Thu May 31, 2012 11:13 am

CRJ-705 wrote:what airlines does georgian hire from?
Bravo, Skycare, Wasaya, and Thunder to name a few. Navajo and Caravan pilots from wherever, some float guys as well and the odd instructor. Internal references help big time.
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